West Yorkshire Police

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I was more than a little surprised by WYP’s ‘tweet’ about this incident:

**LINK**

https://news.sky.com/story/new-lamborghini-sports-car-crashes-in-west-yorkshire-twenty-minutes-into-first-trip-12014366

WYP has pronounced the other motorist ‘innocent’

but my impulse would have been ‘Driving without due Care and Attention’

… I wonder how the insurance claim will go.

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember32069]

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[PlasmaParticipant @plasma]

Driving without due care and attention? Hmm, I'm not altogether sure on the stated facts.

The standard of driving should fall below that expected of a careful and competent driver. Would said competent driver expect there to be a stationary vehicle in lane 3? I would suggest not. And if he had been capable of stopping in the distance he could see to be clear, 96m stopping distance at 70 mph, perhaps he would have been next in line for a rear end shunt.

I would be more interested in examining the Lamborghini and speaking to its driver as this was the vehicle obstructing lane 3. Some kind of catastrophic failure rendering the vehicle immobile may have had a precursor and would attract a possible dangerous driving prosecution.

I always quite my old accident investigation mantra…

A road traffic collision is a rare, random, multifactor event, to which it is impossible to ascribe a single cause.

Mick

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Posted by Plasma on 25/06/2020 15:48:31:

A road traffic collision is a rare, random, multifactor event, ,,,,,,,.

Mick

Rare? do you not listen to the daily traffic reports? Well maybe in West Yorks but as an M25/M4 commuter there are not many days when some idiot has had to try and fail to cut someone up.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

A Lamborghini with a mechanical failure 20 min out of the dealers, says a lot for Lamborghini don't it!. Maybe it was either a Monday morning or a Friday afternoon job off the line. I was under the impression that a car of that class… & all new cars, were given a thorough PDI before they left the dealers showroom.

George.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Makes you wonder why he didn't hit the hazard flashers and steer for the hard shoulder.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by old mart on 25/06/2020 17:06:41:

Makes you wonder why he didn't hit the hazard flashers and steer for the hard shoulder.

Having had a complete loss of power (clutch plate fell apart) at 60mph and still managed to coast safely for nearly a mile to reach a wide verge to roll up on to, you have to wonder.

Neil

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

With it being fly by wire an electrical failure would make it hard to do either. I've only driven a lambo for a short time but they are nice cars

 

Did put a conrod through the block of a Golf many years ago while in outside lane of M25 and like Neil freewheeled onto hard shoulder

Edited By JasonB on 25/06/2020 17:19:28

[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

What’s those 2 bars sticking out of the roof? Looks like in line with the seat backs…

are they pop up roll bars?

[PlasmaParticipant @plasma]

Bazyle. Statistically speaking RTCs are rare, when you consider the number of Miles driven without incident.

I know what you mean though, junction 28 29 of the M1 must be a good place to run a recovery operation.

And yes Neil, one has to wonder why stopping in lane 3 was necessary. I would rather be anywhere other than a live lane at any time of day or night on our motorway network. And even the hard shoulder was not without its risks.

A good friend of mine lost both his legs to a Frenchman driving a double decker bus M1 south on the hard shoulder.

He was recovering a previous bump, full recovery vehicle precautions, lights, cones etc and this boy still managed to drive straight into the car transporter he was loading with a vehicle.

I don't believe there was a prosecution either as he was a French national.

[PlasmaParticipant @plasma]

Yes pop up roll bars! Who knew? Similar to an airbag deploying but probably with a roll sensor rather than deceleration. I dread to think of the price tag for the car, just goes to show some people simply have too much money.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Posted by JasonB on 25/06/2020 17:18:06:

With it being fly by wire an electrical failure would make it hard to do either. I've only driven a lambo for a short time but they are nice cars

Did put a conrod through the block of a Golf many years ago while in outside lane of M25 and like Neil freewheeled onto hard shoulder

Edited By JasonB on 25/06/2020 17:19:28

Some kind people wont let you pull over and cross their lane either.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Hard to know tthe mechanical failure…just so much stuff in cars nowadays with a primitive mind of it's own. google 'phantom braking'

I was in a car without the best brakes and keeping my distance (many decades ago) when the guy in front emergency stopped. I managed to come to a halt an inch or two from him and was promptly hit by a concertina of 6 cars shoving me into the guy in front. Initially the police were going to do me for the lot until the driver behind (a vicar) regained his conscience.

At the incident the police were mostly interested with getting us all travelling down the M1 again and out of their county. I had to insist on them looking my car over and stating it was fit to use (after pulling out the crumpled wing) 'cos I was worried the next police authority might just do me for driving an unsafe vehicle

pgk

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

If, in an emergency, you have to stop in the outside or any other lane of the motorway, and you're the first in line, it's a good idea to turn your wheel slightly to the left as you come to a halt so that you stop at a slight angle to the direction of traffic. That way, vehicles behind you have a bigger clue that you are not moving. Police drivers do this routinely.

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember32069]

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[Paul RhodesParticipant @paulrhodes20292]

Michael, thank you for this posting. I can confirm that I have now cancelled my Lambo order….

[PlasmaParticipant @plasma]

Bill, the reason we were trained to turn the wheels slightly to the left was to provide for the contingency of being shunted from behind. If the wheels were straight or turned to the carriageway the police vehicle could end up anywhere, if turned to the left the vehicle would hit the verge.

Did you know the hard shoulder is so named because you can drive on it. The verge is called the soft shoulder and should never be driven on as it has cable and services trenches which are deliberately soft covered for ease of access. You will sink in if you dip your wheels off the tarmac.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Don't feel too sorry for the fellow, he obviously has so much money that his garage is full of cars which are about as much use as a chocolate teapot in 70mph limits. Back in the days when I had a 200cc Honda Benley which did 70 flat out, I overtook 50 times as many supercars as ever overtook me.

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Doesnt it seem strange that he was in the outside lane when he was hit, Its the offside rear quarter thats taken the hit, if he had had a failure the car that hit him would have most likely hit him square on, it looks as if he was moving into the lane.

Martin P

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

A gearbox failure can bring you to a rapid halt and no matter how quick you are on the clutch it will not help you. I had an entertaining day stripping the Trident gearbox on the side of the road, I nearly got back home with a bent main shaft and some damaged gear teeth, it finally gave up just yards from a mates house so left the bike with him and he gave me and wife a lift home. Finally got bike home the next day under its own steam but had to buy complete gearbox cluster and shafts to rebuild.

Mike

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by mechman48 on 25/06/2020 16:44:21:

A Lamborghini with a mechanical failure 20 min out of the dealers, says a lot for Lamborghini don't it!. Maybe it was either a Monday morning or a Friday afternoon job off the line. I was under the impression that a car of that class… & all new cars, were given a thorough PDI before they left the dealers showroom.

George.

You havent had much to do with Italian cars or bikes then? 😂 And dont mention the electrics.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Dare I suggest that the van driver failed to observe the "2 second rule" advocated in the Police driving manual, "Roadcraft"? Consequently "Driving without due care" should be the charge.

This book is available for sale to the general public. I bought a copy for one of my Grandchildren, last year.

Furthermore, any driver should look well ahead to see a situation developing, so that corrective action can be taken in good time.

Most of the time, heavy braking should be almost unnecessary..

Maybe I am prejudiced, having been involved with commercial vehicles of various sorts since a teenager, and taught to drive by my father who had passed the Driving Examiner test. And I held a PSV licence for nine years, in the days before synchromesh, automatic transmissions and anti lock brakes. The difference between stopping a double decker with full compressed air brakes and an older one with vacuum servo is quite marked!

Howard

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[Former MemberParticipant @formermember32069]

[This posting has been removed]

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

I think I'll stick with motorbikes. They look much safer.

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