Warco WM20

[grubscrewParticipant @grubscrew]

I’m thinking of changing my milling machine. I currently have a Warco Super Major, but have an itch to swap it for a Warco WM20. My questions are

A) Is the WM20 a big enough upgrade or more of a sidestep?

B) The Super Major has 450mm between the spindle and table, the WM20 has 365mm clearance. Is the 85mm difference going to be that noticeable?

I’m spoilt at the moment as the clearance has never been an issue and I’m concerned that I might come to regret changing.

Thanks for any input, GS

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

The Super M looks pretty capable. Is there something you haven’t been able to do with it? If I had that money I’d first make the shed bigger and then buy a few machines I didn’t really need like a shaper and surface grinder and …….

[Peter LidgettParticipant @peterlidgett36832]

I have had a WM20 for about a year now and for what I do in model engineering it meets my needs and all in all I’ve been very pleased with it so far. It’s difficult to provide any comparison with the Super Major as I have never used one… my last mill was a Warco WM18, so for me it was an upgrade. I would say tho that it took a little while to adjust to using a table that moved in Z rather than using a spindle that moved in Z on the column but that is minor.

With regards the clearance, I’ve not experienced any issues to date as I use R8 collets to hold tools which are then flush to the bottom of the spindle. Where you might encounter an issue is if you are drilling large workpieces with long drills as a chuck on an R8 arbour or are using an ER collet chuck can use up some of the space.

If you were to purchase one, purchase with a power feed on the Z-axis… it saves a bit of time and energy!

Note also that it is a heavy machine! I built a new workshop as a retirement present and as part of that purchased a gantry crane to help move my new machines into position. In the past, my old WM18 was moved around using an engine hoist… my engine hoist of old would not be capable of moving the WM20.

[Bazyle]

On Bazyle Said:

The Super M looks pretty capable. Is there something you haven’t been able to do with it? If I had that money I’d first make the shed bigger and then buy a few machines I didn’t really need like a shaper and surface grinder and …….

Hi Bazyle. Nothing wrong with the Super M, in fact it’s very good in most ways. I just like the idea of a quieter, possibly smoother, more refined machine.

P.s. I’ve already extended my workshop and have possibly too many tools I don’t need lol!

[grubscrewParticipant @grubscrew]

Hi Peter.

Thanks for your input. Your comments regarding clearance are interesting as I do use ER collet chucks etc which do eat up space.

Also, I did note the considerable weight difference. This isn’t a particular concern as (hopefully) I will only move it the once.

The very helpful chap I spoke to at Warco did tell me that the latest WM20 comes with three axis power feed as standard now………

[grubscrew]

On grubscrew Said:

On Bazyle Said:

The Super M looks pretty capable. Is there something you haven’t been able to do with it? If I had that money I’d first make the shed bigger and then buy a few machines I didn’t really need like a shaper and surface grinder and …….

… I just like the idea of a quieter, possibly smoother, more refined machine.

P.s. I’ve already extended my workshop and have possibly too many tools I don’t need lol!

Be honest about motives.  I don’t buy tools just because “I like the idea“.   I buy them to make things, and am contained  by lack of space.   Though money isn’t a big problem, like most Model Engineers I am careful with money, a trait reinforced by professional training. (Engineers do for a quid what any fool can do for a guinea.)

As a WM20 is £6000, a Budget Holder would require you to write a Business Case.  What’s the tool for, what problems will it solve, benefits, costs, return, alternatives considered etc.  An unsympathetic Budget Holder would have to be convinced that the purchase isn’t a toy.

So far nothing has been said that would encourage me to authorise grubscrew buying a WM20:  the Super Major does what’s needed and no jobs have been identified that require a bigger machine.  Not sizing the requirement is bad because the WM20 isn’t that much bigger, so it too might be too small!

BUT! Model Engineering is a hobby.  There’s pleasure to be had from owning “nice” tools, even if they are never used in anger.   A motorcycling friend has a beautiful garage/workshop full of sparkling quality tools.  He admits he never uses them.  Any bike (he has 4 or 5) needing more than minor maintenance goes to the dealer.  He enjoys pottering with the radio on, tidying up, reading bike magazines, and ordering better tools.  I suspect he’s more impressed by brand-names than performance.    Collects bike memorabilia too – not cheap.  He’s an ex-engineer who certainly got his hands dirty in the past; in retirement he keeps them clean.   It’s allowed, and Christmas is upon us.

Another suggestion:  check out the second-hand ex-industrial market if the requirement is for a ‘smoother, more refined machine’.   Be careful about condition, but these machines have many expensive refinements.  Too expensive for hobbyists when new, but CNC and outsourcing made thousands of them available over the last 40 years.  Join the group who think Bridgeports are small!

🙂

Dave

 

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