Warco WM 250 problem?

[raysalParticipant @raysal]

Hi All, After degreasing the lathe and setting it up level etc I gave it it's first try. I noticed that the lathe wobbled backwars and forwards. I put a heavier piece of stock in and the lathe wobbled really badly. Due to the top of the stand and drip tray being so thin for the weight of the lathe if you push and pull it by hand you can see it flexing at the mouting blocks. Please note it's nothing to do with the lathe not being bolted to the floor, that part does not wobble.

I phoned Warco to report this and they said they have never come across this before and never had any complaints? If the lathe was second hand I would strengthen up the top with plates but why should I modify it if it is supposed to fit that lathe. I used my boxford for many years on a heavy wooden frame and it did not move.

Am I really the only one to have this problem?

Ray

[raysalParticipant @raysal]

new machine

[Anonymous]

Forget the stock and remove the chuck. If the lathe still wobbles then there is a problem. If not then the issue is with the chuck/stock. Also check to see if the problem gets worse with increasing spindle speed.

Personally I'd bolt the lathe down. Even new it won't be perfectly balanced and a small imbalance can be magnified if the lathe is free to move.

Andrew

[John PenfoldParticipant @johnpenfold74932]

The cabinets and drip tray are fairly flimsy. I put a thick piece of plyboard inside the top of the cabinets and bolted through. That has solved the floppiness.

I also had to add a piece of rubber (I used some inner tube) to seal off the bolt holes in the drip tray. Warco do not supply any seals saying that this was user solvable(?).

I haven't bolted the lathe down as my floor wasn't level. I used the bolt holes to level the lathe.

John

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Don't have this problem with mine as it is mounted on a very heavy bench. Definitely bolt the cabinet to the floor, lathes are inherently top-heavy and unstable added to which it will help to stiffen up the cabinet. As suggested above a couple of bits of 18mm ply or similar inside the cabinet will help. I used a couple of bits of DPC plastic under the feet of my lathe as washers. The whole sideways wobble it not helped by the fact that there is only a single line of mounting holes down the middle. This also makes any bed-twist removal difficult.

John

[raysalParticipant @raysal]

I did think of adding a sheet of ply between the drip tray and stand top but I think I will try as advised, to put ply on the inside of the cabinet.

Ray

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

My 280 is not bolted to the floor but steady as a rock on the makers stand unless I have an unbalanced casting or eccentric work in the 4 jaw.

As Andrew says try without anything on the spindle, if still bad take a video and sent to warco.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Something odd is going on – I doubt a thin stand would cause a lathe to wobble unless something was unbalanced, like turning heavy work off-set on a faceplate or 4-jaw chuck, or turning a bent rod.

WM250s are popular lathes and this is the first time I've noticed wobble mentioned as a problem, let alone 'really badly'. Any chance of posting some photos? I'd like to know more about the stand, how the lathe was levelled, and those mounting blocks. Trust nothing – could it be for example that part of the stand is missing, like a rear panel or shelves?

Dave

[raysalParticipant @raysal]

Hello Dave, I must admit that it copes with light stock in it and I did try a unturned round bar in it to test further. When reading reviews on the lathe I did come across some metioning that it is best to make your own stand as they are flimsy but I wanted a whole new kit. After reading the advice on here I have told Warco that I will sort it myself and so will strengthen the mounting by putting 18mm ply inside the ceiling of the cabinet.

To give an exaggerated example of what is actually happening: if you mount a thin flat piece of steel sheet, say 4 x 2 to a frame and mount a 180kg lathe in the center with 3 bolts, if you pull the lathe you see the steel sheet buckle. If you did the same with a 1/2" sheet of steel it would not bend. 

I love the lathe and have no complaint with Warco I only contacted them in case some sort of strengthening plates may be missing.

Edited By raysal on 15/11/2019 13:12:48

Edited By raysal on 15/11/2019 13:13:30

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

As mentioned above, add a piece of plywood under the tray otherwise you'll be tightening the lathe against a piece of sheet metal with a 3/8" air gap, most probably that's the cause of your lathe wobble.

This is the gap I had between the tray and the bench top.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Is this the stand?

My suggestion would be two pieces of angle iron across front and back of the stand then a 3×2 ft paving slab on top, especially if you can find a proper council spec 2in thick slab.
The mass helps and as a bonus you get a 2in lift and everyone complains lathes are too low for them.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by raysal on 15/11/2019 13:11:03:

Hello Dave, I must admit that it copes with light stock in it and I did try a unturned round bar in it to test further. When reading reviews on the lathe I did come across some metioning that it is best to make your own stand as they are flimsy but I wanted a whole new kit. After reading the advice on here I have told Warco that I will sort it myself and so will strengthen the mounting by putting 18mm ply inside the ceiling of the cabinet.

To give an exaggerated example of what is actually happening: if you mount a thin flat piece of steel sheet, say 4 x 2 to a frame and mount a 180kg lathe in the center with 3 bolts, if you pull the lathe you see the steel sheet buckle. If you did the same with a 1/2" sheet of steel it would not bend.

I love the lathe and have no complaint with Warco I only contacted them in case some sort of strengthening plates may be missing.

Edited By raysal on 15/11/2019 13:12:48

Edited By raysal on 15/11/2019 13:13:30

HI Ray,

Like Jason I have a WM280 on a flimsy Warco stand not bolted to the floor. It's very similar to this one for the 250 (image from Warco):

The WM280 bolts to the cabinets through the tray and forms a bridge between them . The tray (not shown) isn't really part of the strength structure: the weight of the lathe is supported by the cabinets, which – unlike the tray and splash back – are stiff boxes. A flimsy tray, shelves and backplate connect the two cabinets but like those wire ties inside cavity walls they don't hold the house up themselves!

Please let us know how you get on – understanding causes is always helpful, whether it's a faulty lathe, excessively skinny stand or a missing bolt.

Dave

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

My 250V is bolted to the Warco stand as illustrated above, which rests on a rubber mat on the floor – not bolted down.

I think I'd only have a problem with a very heavy workpiece, grossly out of balance at high revs. I've not had any issues so far.

[raysalParticipant @raysal]

It is the stand as pictured, it's very smart looking. I have read many reviews on Warco being spot on with problem solving and help. I had a email from them just now saying they would get a carpenter to make me a strengthening top I have told them that I will sort it but how nice is that of them, they have lived up to their reputation again.

Ray

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

My Weiss Machinery 250 was put on stone and something IKEA.

It turns quite nicely.

WM250 at work

And does not vibrate

Low noise lathe

I would get rid of the crabinet and make a plywood stand instead.

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

A simpler WM250 furniture

[alan-lloydParticipant @alan-lloyd]

I had this trouble, I anchored mine to the wall, the early machines had narrow bases on the cabinet stands

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

My 250V-F is sat on two nylon cutting boards bolted to the stand which sits on a couple of rubber mats to absorb any vibration & unevenness of the garage floor. I did have some vibration issues early on but mainly down to offset castings / other odd shapes at certain rpm. I did find that the 3 chuck mounting bolts were slack & of different weights, up to 3 grams of each other, the same with flanged mounting nuts I'd changed to from OEM provided. Some judicial grinding of each followed up with weighing ea. item & matching up resulted in noticeable improvement in the vibration scenario, so it's worth checking these out.

You may say that 3 grams isn't much but even on these 'cheapo' Chinese lathes, when you have the chuck ( 5 kg mass ) spinning anywhere 'tween 750 – 1000 rpm & you have 3 gram imbalance at one point of 360* & a 1-2 gram imbalance at say 270* it will be noticeable, ( going back to my dynamic balancing days ) so definitely check them out.

George.

[Martin WhittleParticipant @martinwhittle67411]

Posted by raysal on 15/11/2019 11:12:55:

Hi All, After degreasing the lathe and setting it up level etc I gave it it's first try. I noticed that the lathe wobbled backwards and forwards. I put a heavier piece of stock in and the lathe wobbled really badly.

Ray

Hi Ray

Just as sanity check,

• What is the degree of wobble with no stock in the chuck?
• Is the stock you have mentioned held reasonably on-axis – e.g. is it a balanced load in a self-centering chuck for example?
• If it is unbalanced, how heavy it it and how fast are you spinning it?
• Also – is the spindle tight on the bearings? i.e. bearings appear to be correctly adjusted and there is no discernable movement if you hold the chuck (with power off!) and heave it to and fro?

NB I have a Warco WM250, and I have not had any such vibration problems at all, on a moderately substantial wooden bench not secured to floor or wall. But I have been surprised at quite how slow I have had to spin an an out of balance workpiece on a woodworking lathe!

Martin

[BC ProfParticipant @bcprof]

When I had my WM280V it was bolted down to the Warco stand which rested on a reasonably level concrete garage floor. The two tower units were heavy duty linked by the tray ,shelves and backing panel. One I had placed a thin shim under the right hand corner to stop the whole assembly rocking I had no trouble at all with vibration

[Paul MParticipant @paulm98238]

I have a WM250 and the Warco stand. I used a length of hefty rectangular tube at each end of the stand with adjustable feet to level the lathe. The tube is wider than the base of the stand for extra stability. I find the lathe does vibrate somewhat when turning offset work and have to run the lathe slowly or carefully counterbalance the setup.

Looking at the mounting positions for the lathe, there are three inline, two at the headstock and one at the tailstock end. I am not convinced the base of the carriage and headstock are perfectly flat as It is quite easy to wobble the lathe. This appears to be only partly due to the thickness of the top of the stand. My intension in the near future, is to look at ways in which to modify the mounts and add something more robust to the top of the stands.

[raysalParticipant @raysal]

This afternoon I did what a few recommended . I bought some longer mounting bolts and added a 18mm thick piece of ply inside the cabinet ceiling. I retried the offending piece of un-turned steel and all was well.

Martin, Although I mentioned putting a heavyish piece of stock in the chuck that really caused a wobble, I did not actually need to even put anything in the chuck or even run the lathe, you could see the flex by just pushing the lathe backwards and forwards.

Thanks for all your help on this chaps, now I have ironed out all the teething problems I can have fun turning.

[John Hall 7Participant @johnhall7]

The drip tray has a void underneath it…I think this may be to fit flush on the Warco cabinets….I cut a piece of plywood slightly thicker than the void to fill the whole space…thus lifting the tray slightly off the bench I made…

if you’ve mounted the lathe directly on top of the tray without anything between the bench and tray it won’t be solid..

[Author]

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