Silver Solder Identification

[Deltic007Participant @deltic007]

Hi,

I am after some pointers to identify some Silver Solder i have inherited.

The tube says Johnson Matthey with an Easy Flo sticker on,No id as regards what grade just the size 1.0mm x 1.5mm 600mm long,threre must be about 100 sticks.Tube has a date of late 1976 on it.

Is there an easy way to identify it or am i better selling it on and getting something of a known identity.What is it worth?

Thanks in advance.

Deltic 7

[Deltic007Participant @deltic007]

[CuP AlloysParticipant @cupalloys]

Hi,

You lucky person!

The alloy you have is the low melting point silver solder so loved by model engineers because of its flow characteristics.

You have about 1 kg.

To you – it could be priceless. It is no longer available.

However the sale or tranfer of this alloy and others was banned in Europe from Dec 10th 2011.

Its use (if you had some) was not affected but its sale was made illegal.

It was also made illegal to give it away!

So its value is zero, but if you wish to use it, do so, but make sure you have well ventilated conditions.

regards

Keith Hale

CuP Alloys Ltd

(leading supplier of silver solder to the model engineer but not this alloy!)

[CuP AlloysParticipant @cupalloys]

Hi,

You lucky person!

The alloy you have is the low melting point silver solder so loved by model engineers because of its flow characteristics.

You have about 1 kg.

To you – it could be priceless. It is no longer available.

However the sale or tranfer of this alloy and others was banned in Europe from Dec 10th 2011 because it contained cadmiun.

Its use (if you had some) was not affected but its sale was made illegal.

It was also made illegal to give it away!

So its value is zero, but if you wish to use it, do so, but make sure you have well ventilated conditions.

regards

Keith Hale

CuP Alloys Ltd

(leading supplier of silver solder to the model engineer but not this alloy!)

[Deltic007Participant @deltic007]

Thanks Keith

I have a quantity with Blue flux on as well,What would that be? Banned as well i suppose given it was from the same era.

Deltic7

[Roger WoollettParticipant @rogerwoollett53105]

Does the sticker say Easy Flo2? I may be wrong but I thought there was an EasyFlo without a number that may not have been the cadmium bearing stuff everybody likes.

Roger Woollett

[Deltic007Participant @deltic007]

There is no number i am afraid.

[CuP AlloysParticipant @cupalloys]

Declared interest! I own CuP Alloys Ltd.

Roger is right – there were two alloys – Easiflo and Easiflo2.

Easiflo had 50% silver and No2 had 42%. Both contained cadmium.

Easiflo45 – an alloy popular in the States and Downunder also contains cadmium.

Sorry but the flux coated rod, if it contains cadmium, still cannot legally be traded.

If you've got it – enjoy it – but treat it sensibly. Use in well ventilated areas.

Keith Hale

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

If you were to accidentaly trip and drop some silver solder, whilst at the same time some loose change were to accidentaly fall from my pocket, and in the confusion that followed we accidentaly picked up objects belonging to the other person, would that be deemed illegal? Alternatively I could steal it from you after an all expenses paid night out drinking??

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

You will have to define trade. Keith is a trader, anyone who disposes of goods, not for profit, is not a trader. Follow that one. Keith, please provide chapter and verse as to why it is illegal to give it away.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

This is a good place to start digging into the legislation.

And here is the [old] HSE guidance.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 24/08/2012 21:04:13

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

KWIL,

Chapter and verse … [quoted from this site]

Use in regulation (EC) 1907/2006 chapter 2 article 3 under item 24 (page 58 in link stated below) is defined as follows:
"Use: means any processing, formulation, consumption, storage, keeping, treatment, filling into containers, transfer from one container to another, mixing, production of an article or any other utilisation."

… Make of that what you will.

The regulation is hyperlinked from the page.

MichaelG.

[David LittlewoodParticipant @davidlittlewood51847]

If you want to know what the law says, look at the law. In this case, unfortunately, it was written – as these things usually are – by a creature from the planet Zog masquerading as a speaker of human language. Here it is: **LINK**

 Note the critical bit (it's in the Annex on page 4, would you believe – all the previous bit is actually just background justification) is "shall not be placed on the market". Some suppliers say they have legal advice which says this means it cannot be given away. I must say that my personal view is that giving something away is the very antithesis of placing it on the market, but if you look at the earlier EU (or EC as it then was) legislation it does indeed say:

"Placing on the market: means supplying or making available, whether in return for payment or free of charge, to a third party…"

See df">http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=oj:l:2006:396:0001:0849:endf , page 55

David

Sorry, this forum software is complete pants, it's wrecked the link again! You can find the regulation by looking at the post above mine and clicking on the 2006 link at the bottom of the page.

 

Edited By David Littlewood on 24/08/2012 23:52:42

[AndyPParticipant @andyp13730]

The hse defines it thus:-

Placing on the market

Supplying or making available, whether in return for payment or free of charge, to a third party. Import shall be deemed to be placing on the market.

edit SNAP !

So I suspect they have us by the ……..

Never mind 1kg of 50%Ag has a scrap value of about £250 – and that is definitely going to liberate all the cadmium.

Andy

Edited By AndyP on 24/08/2012 23:50:34

[SpringbokParticipant @springbok]

Yet you still see it on fleabay "Found in grandads attic" etc;

Bob

[CuP AlloysParticipant @cupalloys]

Thank you Andy. That is precisely the answer. Happy KWIL?

Of course this alloy will continue to change hands but don't advertise it. That is like asking the police if there is any parking space at the pub!

Internet shopping sites do not normally want to be seen as a vehicle for placing on the market banned substances.

Another scenario for you …

The alloy is only banned when placed on the market as a brazing alloy !

It can still be legally supplied for use as a bearing for the main rotor on helicopters.

It can still be supplied as a metal coat hanger for example. Simply straighten it out. I expect I would have to place an order for a minimum of 100,000. How many do you want?

I did not agree to the ban and told Brussels accordingly. We just have to get on with it. That is European Law – unfortunately we have to adhere to it. Come the revolution!

Nothing more to say.

Keith

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

I presume that it can be bought in France, they seem to ignore all the other regulations that do not suit them?

Edited By KWIL on 25/08/2012 10:10:47

[Phil PParticipant @philp]

I wonder how many new laws that originated in the UK have been adopted in the rest of Europe.

Not many I suspect.

I have just been reading some disturbing stuff on another forum about vintage vehicles, that would render thousands of old motors worthless over night if it came into force.

**LINK**

Phil

[VersabossParticipant @versaboss]

You still can get Castolin 1802 (similar to Easyflow) without problems in Switzerland. But the German site of Castolin does not mention it…

Greetings, Hansrudolf

[VersabossParticipant @versaboss]

You still can get Castolin 1802 (similar to Easyflow) without problems in Switzerland. But the German site of Castolin does not mention it…

Greetings, Hansrudolf

[David LittlewoodParticipant @davidlittlewood51847]

It would be interesting to have an opinion from an expert in EU law as to whether "placed on the market" has some implicit limitation transactions between business concerns. IOW, a gift between private individuals not involved in a relevant business might be outside its scope. After all, as Bob indicated, what happens when the owner dies?

This is the kind of arrant nonsense which is inevitable when vast sets of rules are produced by a legion of bureaucrats brought up in a Continental system (which seems to be based on the philosophy that no-one can do anything unless given permission to do it) is grafted onto a common-law based system which starts with the assumption that you are responsible for your own actions, but must take the consequences if you screw up.

David

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Put it another way, 'Everything is allowed, unless expressly forbidden'.

Cadmium is allowed for plating aircraft comonents that are hidden from inspection I understand. It is also used in corrosive situations on aircraft components, likely undercarriage, etc.

Clive

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

I imagine the law is saying it's no longer legal to sell 'new' cadmium bearing solders 'commercially' in the same way that it's no longer legal for leaded solders to be used in water systems or electrical goods. Doesn't mean existing stock isn't out there and changing hands in a very minor way. If no more is produced then the supply is finite and will cease to exist after a while. It's not illegal to buy or sell antique ivory goods but it is illegal to trade in new ivory. I claim no legal knowledge but common sense would seem to suggest that trying to police pre-owned surviving stocks of cadmium solder changing hands is unenforceable and a fools errand.

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