Recent threads

[Ian Skeldon 2Participant @ianskeldon2]

I have encountered the odd unhelpful response on this forum but I have received far more genuine replies and offers of help from quite a few members on this forum. Long may the helpful and friendly members continue to out post the not so helpful.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by JasonB on 14/07/2019 14:01:15:

I must have been looking at at different thread to Neil

I'm quite busy at the moment – I seem to have missed something!

Neil

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by martin perman on 14/07/2019 10:12:39:

…… lot of one upmanship …. acronym's that are difficult to decipher……putting people down …….. silly points.

Why cant we all get along and respect each others views or opinions without reducing it to written abuse.

Since we're respecting others' opinions, this all seems like a circular argument to me. What people consider "acceptable" behaviour – whether here or in person – varies over a fairly wide range however much an individual considers their's to be the "obvious" standard.

Seeking to impose, on others, one person's view of "correctness" in this respect is, well, wrong imo (in my opinion). That's mostly what's wrong with today's world already.

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

The internet isolates people from the conversation. I try (but don't always succeed) to stick to the rule of "Would I say this to that persons face if we were having a pint in the pub?".

It's very easy to forget that at every one of these keyboards is a person. The nature of connecting so many people, even in a small field like this, is that you are going to find a lot of people you disagree with.

[Blue HeelerParticipant @blueheeler]

Posted by Ian Skeldon 2 on 14/07/2019 22:02:31:

I have encountered the odd unhelpful response on this forum but I have received far more genuine replies and offers of help from quite a few members on this forum. Long may the helpful and friendly members continue to out post the not so helpful.

^ hear hear to the above.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, language is a wonderful thing and the English one has many trends (for want of a better expression) I've worked in industry all my life and the language within it can be very offensive if you allow it to get to you. I wasn't used to this type of talk before I left school and was brought up to be polite, although not been taught "Queens English" as such. I soon realised that one would have to accept this type of talk, even if I didn't use it myself. But here's the rub, being polite can be just as offensive to some people as bad language is to others and you can get accused of being a snob or holier than thou if you are not talking the same way as they are, it was a strange situation, but you get immune to it or leave, however most would mind their Ps and Qs in the presents of women, although these days many women seem to use the so called offensive language as much as men do. I have a pretty broad mine these days and use language to acceptable levels to the particular company that I am with, but still won't use offensive language towards women and never in front of children.

Regards Nick.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 15/07/2019 01:17:57:

I'm quite busy at the moment – I seem to have missed something!

.

Try the 'Aldi bargain laser level' thread, Neil

MichaelG.

.

Edit: I see that you have recently contributed … but have you read the whole thread ?

… How many acronyms containg F do we really need ?

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 15/07/2019 08:30:23

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

Ah, it was the Aldi laser level thread?

Still pretty tame in the handbags at dawn stakes I see on other forums, and Facebook!

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by David Standing 1 on 15/07/2019 08:32:32:

Ah, it was the Aldi laser level thread?

.

I'm not sure whether that ^^^ was what prompted Martin to start this thread, David … but it seems a reasonable 'ferinstance'

MichaelG.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

There seems to be a general acceptance of bad language and the young use it freely in mixed company almost anywhere. A friend had his eyes opened when doing some electrical work at a top girls school in the late ‘60s, he was working within earshot of the girls locker room and was surprised that the young ladies could match the vocabulary of the factory floor or barrack room. Another friend won’t watch Quentin Tarantino films because of the relentless bad language even after a 22 year career in the British Army. Unfortunately bad language has become more common in the pub even in mixed company, the days seem long past when the landlord would warn a customer about their language.

Mike

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Sometimes I use the neutral " Hello " but on a forum like don't usually add a salutation, unless replying to a specific contributor, and then just the name.

However, it's important to realise one can be offended even if reasonably thick-skinned, by something in the text itself striking a nerve not known the writer. I've upset one or two individuals quite unwittingly (not on this site… I hope), and have been put out myself (on this site, too.)

In the latter, a machine-setting suggestion I'd used successfully, was rather sarcastically rubbished by someone who appeared not to have understood my point. I replied with a "Don't worry, I won't post anything else", and left the thread.

'

As for the word "gentlemen", I am old enough to remember the light-heartedly erudite My Word on the BBC Home Service; played by a regular panel of two men and two woman, all writers and literary critics. In particular I recall the definition given in one edition by one of the men – Frank Muir or Denis Norden – of Gentlemen and hence explain that which seems to bother the ladies so much. The matter of leaving loo seats up!

Mr. Muir or Mr. Norden explained that railway coach lavatories used to bear a brass plaque, Gentlemen Lift The Seat, pointing out the brevity and lack of punctuation made it admirably both complimentary definition and peremptory command. It would seem therefore that we males leaving the seat up shows us to be Gentlemen.

[As an aside, the instruction I remember, I think from many trips on the ex-Southern Railway EMUs in my native Hampshire, was " Gentlemen Adjust Your Dress Before Leaving ", sartorially puzzling me for years….]

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

I've noticed it, it's just one or two know-it-all types who like to dismiss anyone else's ideas and opinions.

I've had it and I've seen others have to put up with these negative people too.

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by David Standing 1 on 15/07/2019 08:32:32:

Ah, it was the Aldi laser level thread?

Still pretty tame in the handbags at dawn stakes I see on other forums, and Facebook!

I believe the electric car thread also had some unnecessary banter. The poster couldn’t even spell it properly, unless he’s Australian.

[JAParticipant @ja]

I write this with some trepidation since I have managed to upset people in the past.

My comments on the use of any forum, from experience:

1. Think before you respond to anything on a forum. Are you really contributing?

2. Don't post anything late at night. You are tired and, perhaps, have had some alcohol.

3. You do not know who you are writing to. What might be an innocent comment to a friend or colleague could be misunderstood and/or offensive.

4. There are members of any forum who will not let you forget your misdemeanours.

5. You can always walk away from a forum. Instead go and carve some metal, read a good book, go down the pub, drive a bus. In other words find reality.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Pete Rimmer on 14/07/2019 21:07:46:

It's quite easy Dave. Look at what's been said or written and consider if it was sent in a manner designed to cause offence. It's usually very easy to tell.

…

"So, we all know what S.P.C stands for don't we?" I put my hand up and said "Stupid Political Correctness".

Not sure it is easy to spot what's offensive; IanSC quoted this example:

'anything refering to gentlemen reminds me of a famous speech to the military at the beginning of WW2 by a certain RAF Air Vice Marshal sent by London to set up our Air Force for war. He started the speech "men and boys of the army and navy, and gentle men of the air force". I think that is all of the speech that was remembered by anyone, and it caused a major rift in the forces for a number of years, here maybe more back then all were/are concidered equal, in fact NZ servicemen during the war ,when serving in UK often got a bit of stick, as the men and officers were sometimes a bit too "friendly".'

Early in World War 2, Britain was close to defeat and needed all the help she could get. At the time New Zealand was still a 'Dominion', which meant the country was self-governing in all but Defence. The UK declaring war on Germany meant New Zealand was also at war with Germany, but Dominions like Canada, Australia and New Zealand were under no obligation to do anything about it. The extent to which New Zealand committed blood and treasure was their decision, not London's. Goodwill is essential, especially when men are being asked to fight. Now it's unlikely the AVM was sent to put colonials in their place, rather the opposite. He caused offence by using the word 'gentlemen' in the wrong context. No excuses – although New Zealanders might be more sensitive than Brits about class distinctions, careless use of 'gentlemen' could and did cause offence in 1940 England. It was a gaffe, still remembered in New Zealand 80 years later! And Alan picked up on Martin innocently using the same word to start this thread.

Another way of understanding the need for care is to turn it on it's head. Why are Pete, Howard, and others so upset when told they cannot say what they like? Bandersnatch puts it well:

Seeking to impose, on others, one person's view of "correctness" in this respect is, well, wrong imo (in my opinion). That's mostly what's wrong with today's world already.

BUT, if you think it's OK to say what you think, then don't be offended when someone returns the complement. Pete made the remark about "Stupid Political Correctness" because he didn't like being on the receiving end. By banning 'SPIC' in the workplace, his employer was – in effect – telling Pete he was a rude ignoramus, not trusted to get on with colleagues without abusing them. That's pretty offensive! Same for anyone who picks up a newspaper and finds they are a social pariah. However, what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If you can't take a joke, you shouldn't have joined…

Odd I think, when chaps who see no harm delivering 'banter' are upset when they get bollocked for it!

As I'm such a loveable inoffensive chap, its hard to believe that SillyOldDuffer has a Personnel File that mentions 'arrogance' as a shortcoming. Clearly an injustice. Obviously I think I'm a workshop genius because I've read Madame Bovary and can work a computer but the truth is most of what I know about machining has been nicked off the forum. Respect to you all.

Dave

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 15/07/2019 09:39:22

[Mick HenshallParticipant @mickhenshall99321]

I educated my children at a young age with every swear word I could think of and the meaning of them, hasn't seemed to have harmed them and they use an expletive when necessary but not often

Mick 🇬🇧

[Stuart BridgerParticipant @stuartbridger82290]

I miss being called a "clumsy b&rstard" by the late great John Stevenson. Always posted as a retort to any anyone owning up to a machine crash or other cock-up. RIP Sir John.

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

Posted by Vic on 15/07/2019 09:12:36

I believe the electric car thread also had some unnecessary banter. The poster couldn’t even spell it properly, unless he’s Australian.

Strewth, steady on there Vic, Aussies invented your WiFi

Indeed, I have noticed the recent posts that demonize everybody and anybody. They appear to originate from recent arrivals with a chip on their shoulder, so regulars relax – you are like family

* Baby Boomer * and proud of it!

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Posted by Mick Henshall on 15/07/2019 09:45:20:

I educated my children at a young age with every swear word I could think of and the meaning of them, hasn't seemed to have harmed them and they use an expletive when necessary but not often

Mick 🇬🇧

Swearing is interesting because it depends so much on context. When I worked in the motor trade just about everything in the stores or workshop had an *****!! epithet attached to it, but it was meaningless as that was the way that things – and people – were described. No offence was ever taken and not using the words was seen as unusual to say the least. I am sure that many others have seen similar. I suspect, however, that no one would have dreamed of using the same kind of language anywhere nearly as frequently outside work.

My two daughters and very close in age and similarly to the above will have come across most of the words that you can imagine – but I have never heard one use any of them while the other uses them, in appropriate circumstances, as she heard them. Strange???

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 15/07/2019 09:39:04:

Posted by Pete Rimmer on 14/07/2019 21:07:46:

It's quite easy Dave. Look at what's been said or written and consider if it was sent in a manner designed to cause offence. It's usually very easy to tell.

…

"So, we all know what S.P.C stands for don't we?" I put my hand up and said "Stupid Political Correctness".

Not sure it is easy to spot what's offensive; IanSC quoted this example:

'anything refering to gentlemen reminds me of a famous speech to the military at the beginning of WW2 by a certain RAF Air Vice Marshal sent by London to set up our Air Force for war. He started the speech "men and boys of the army and navy, and gentle men of the air force". I think that is all of the speech that was remembered by anyone, and it caused a major rift in the forces for a number of years, here maybe more back then all were/are concidered equal, in fact NZ servicemen during the war ,when serving in UK often got a bit of stick, as the men and officers were sometimes a bit too "friendly".'

Early in World War 2, Britain was close to defeat and needed all the help she could get. At the time New Zealand was still a 'Dominion', which meant the country was self-governing in all but Defence. The UK declaring war on Germany meant New Zealand was also at war with Germany, but Dominions like Canada, Australia and New Zealand were under no obligation to do anything about it. The extent to which New Zealand committed blood and treasure was their decision, not London's. Goodwill is essential, especially when men are being asked to fight. Now it's unlikely the AVM was sent to put colonials in their place, rather the opposite. He caused offence by using the word 'gentlemen' in the wrong context. No excuses – although New Zealanders might be more sensitive than Brits about class distinctions, careless use of 'gentlemen' could and did cause offence in 1940 England. It was a gaffe, still remembered in New Zealand 80 years later! And Alan picked up on Martin innocently using the same word to start this thread.

Another way of understanding the need for care is to turn it on it's head. Why are Pete, Howard, and others so upset when told they cannot say what they like? Bandersnatch puts it well:

Seeking to impose, on others, one person's view of "correctness" in this respect is, well, wrong imo (in my opinion). That's mostly what's wrong with today's world already.

BUT, if you think it's OK to say what you think, then don't be offended when someone returns the complement. Pete made the remark about "Stupid Political Correctness" because he didn't like being on the receiving end. By banning 'SPIC' in the workplace, his employer was – in effect – telling Pete he was a rude ignoramus, not trusted to get on with colleagues without abusing them. That's pretty offensive! Same for anyone who picks up a newspaper and finds they are a social pariah. However, what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If you can't take a joke, you shouldn't have joined…

Odd I think, when chaps who see no harm delivering 'banter' are upset when they get bollocked for it!

As I'm such a loveable inoffensive chap, its hard to believe that SillyOldDuffer has a Personnel File that mentions 'arrogance' as a shortcoming. Clearly an injustice. Obviously I think I'm a workshop genius because I've read Madame Bovary and can work a computer but the truth is most of what I know about machining has been nicked off the forum. Respect to you all.

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 15/07/2019 09:39:22

I'm not upset about not being able to say what I like. Generally I don't try to deliberately offend people any more than I deliberately go out of my way to make sure I don't use words that could be used in an offensive context. I can tell the difference between an acronym and an insult. If someone took issue with my use of the acronym, I would simply say that I'm sorry that you're upset.

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

Personally (or IMO if you prefer), as far as the use of certain letters is concerned, W. S. Gilbert seems to have hit things right on the head. The well-bred Captain of the Pinafore can say that he "Hardly ever swears a big, big D -" without giving offence, but when in act II he says "Why damme, it's to bad!" he has gone too far.

I suspect that the worlds (and vocabularies) of internet forums and model engineering meet at best tangentially, however most of us have had 20+ years using e-mails, forums and IMs (or even longer, I remember using abbreviations and acronyms on a Telex machine) to get used to IMO, LOL, ROFL, TBH, TL;DR, LMGTFY or even GIYF (I'm not entirely convinced that last one is true). I suspect however that DRO, QCTP, MT, and BSB may be as mysterious to newcomers as the legendary "digital vernier".

Brian

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Pete Rimmer on 15/07/2019 10:25:29:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 15/07/2019 09:39:04:

Posted by Pete Rimmer on 14/07/2019 21:07:46:

It's quite easy Dave. Look at what's been said or written and consider if it was sent in a manner designed to cause offence. It's usually very easy to tell.

…

…

I'm not upset about not being able to say what I like. Generally I don't try to deliberately offend people any more than I deliberately go out of my way to make sure I don't use words that could be used in an offensive context. I can tell the difference between an acronym and an insult. If someone took issue with my use of the acronym, I would simply say that I'm sorry that you're upset.

I believe you Pete! My point is just that the views of the recipient matter too, and it's unwise to risk words or abbreviations like 'SPIC' that can be very offensive indeed.

Imagine the railway took on a young man who happens to be half-Spanish and is sensitive about his heritage, perhaps teased at school. He reports to you and is told he's a "SPIC". One thing leads to another and he takes your employer to a Employment Tribunal and claims he has a 'protected characteristic' as defined by the Equality Act. He certainly has a case. If his argument is accepted your employer has committed an offence because their representative insisted on using the abbreviation and they are responsible for what their employees do.

Generally best not to get entangled in this kind of dispute whatever the rights and wrongs – it results in negative publicity, costs serious money, wastes time and causes ill-feeling. From the employers point of view it's safer to just dump anything that might cause offence.

Politeness costs nothing, saying the wrong thing at the wrong time can get you anything from a punch on the nose to a prison sentence.

It's a shame that fear of causing offence can stifle healthy debate or worse. Racism is plain wrong, but fear of being accused of racism should not stop the authorities from acting vigorously against criminals who happen to be Black or Islamic. As always it's hard to strike a balance between tolerance and appeasement.

It's not all bad news. One of the benefits of being elderly-retired is getting away with a lot more rudeness!

Dave

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Posted by Brian G on 15/07/2019 10:29:07:I suspect however that DRO, QCTP, MT, and BSB may be as mysterious to newcomers as the legendary "digital vernier".

Brian

Did Row Over, Quick Come to Papa, No Contents and something to do with Sky Satellites?

I must learn to resist temptation

pgk

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I'm locking this before it drives more valued members away from the forum.

<comment added by Neil:>

Thanks Jason – I've also deleted a comment or two here; folks using a thread about poor conduct to make digs!

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 15/07/2019 16:21:12

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