Preferred fixings

[MonkParticipant @monk]

What is the preferred method of fixing frames together? On the plans it highlights which holes need to be tapped etc, but on the frames there is nothing, just a hole size. Would you look to rivet the frames together, or use nuts and bolts? Could you tap the brackets and then fix together that way?

[MonkParticipant @monk]

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Are we talking door frames, window frames, or something else? Oh, since you mention rivets and working to a drawing I presume its not woodwork.*

If you gave a bit more information it would be much easier for people to help.

Ian

*Actually I ones knew someone who had built his own hardwood conservatory and he told me it was held together with 'STEEL DOWELS'. I later found out he used nails!

[MonkParticipant @monk]

Sorry, didn't realise I hadn't mentioned it, probably because I had it in my mind!

Steel frames for a 5" loco and tender. Actually just been looking at the tender at the moment which is a GWR 4000 from polly engineering.

Edited By Monk on 17/09/2012 14:37:14

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

Since you are asking this question one assumes you are new to loco building – take some sound advice and either tap with clearance holes or just clearance holes and use nuts and bolts. OK it wont be accurate to the real thing in this detail but You are guaranteed to get something wrong and need to take it all apart sooner rather than later, trust me!

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

You can rivet the corner pieces to the front and back buffer beam, and then use nuts and bolts to fix to the frames.

The spacers along the length of the frame, if cast, I fixed with c/sunk hex drive screws.

Counter sink all rivets outside and use a ball head dolly inside. Dummy rivets are used on the Buffer beams for visual effect.

I dont think there is any set method of doing it, just think through what bit you are doing and if you have to dismantle later.

Clive

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

What size holes are specified in your frames as that may give a clue to whats needed. Fractional sizes would likely be rivits but anything else may be clearance size for threaded fixings.

J

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

On my shunter I did as Clive suggests – I riveted each angle piece to its stretcher or buffer beam, and used countersunk 5BA screws to fix these to the frames. I later worked out that countersunk M3 screws were much cheaper.

Once all was fine and dany, I filled the screwheads with isopon, let it set and scraped flat with a model knife.

Neil

[MonkParticipant @monk]

Cheers guys, there is no sizes on the plans I can see. I guessed that bits like this would have some sort of set fixture that everyone used as it seemed quite basic. However, yes I'm new to this and trying to collect information and books from all over!

There is indication of c/sunk fixings else where on the plans, but not on these so I don't think these need to be. Being the frame I gathered it needed to be solid so was curious to the best/preferred method.

Thanks for the replies I appreciate it. At least I know that all the methods are viable and I need to choose the best method for my build

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Monk, I think the "preferred method" is which one that you would like yourself, but do bear in mind what has been said about any dismantling that may be needed. Whichever method you use, it should not be sloppy in the holes, nor should you have force them through or have any shear forces on them.

The idea of bolts or rivets is for these to be in tension, thus applying enough friction between the two parts to transmit all the forces from one part to the other. The effect is they act as one solid part, and no shear forces are applyed to the fixings.

Regards Nick.

[MonkParticipant @monk]

Thanks Nicholas that sums up nicely what I wanted to know!

Do people use thread lock? Locking nuts? Or should the nut and bolt be sufficient in a properly drilled hole?

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Again, choice is yours. Lock nuts or plain Hex. nuts are both suitable and as long as its dismountable it will be OK.

Thread lock would use on the final assembly, somethiing like 242 or such, no need to lock it up tight forever.

Clive

[MonkParticipant @monk]

That's brilliant thanks!

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

If you can pick up a job lot of old Model Engineers and read through the build articles it will give you this kind of detail. Also you might find one of the loco build books even if not your loco will have lots of applicable info.

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