More Lathe Questions

[needleworksParticipant @needleworks]

Hi guys, like lots of other peeps, I`m looking for a little advice regarding getting myself a new lathe. Although not a complete novice, I would class myself as a very basic beginner ! For the past few years I have been plodding along with an old (I think it`s about 100 years old) drummond round bed lathe, and now I`d like to advance to a bit better machine. My drummond has no measuring facilities at all, only has the very basic gear wheels, and is now starting to show definate signs of wear, time to upgrade I think.

I have been looking at all that is available on the net, and have kind of narrowed it down to 3, what I am left with are these 3

Chester 920

Warco WM-180

Sealey SM27

I was also looking at seconhand myfords, but all seem to be a bit out of my price range, and also too far away to go and look at/pick up.

I would only be doing simple turning/threading jobs, so wanted to go for something that I could move around if need be, that had metric threading capabilities and had the option to measure any work pieces that I was working on.

Can anyone tell me if I`m on the right track with the three that I have picked, or if not, can anyone suggest any alternatives ? With having the drummond for years, I know the basics of using it, but as for buying a new one, I`m a bit lost to be honest.

Any help greatly appreciated guys.

[needleworksParticipant @needleworks]

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Also take a look at the Chester Comet VS Lathe, it's a bit more expensive (£890 on offer now), but has some nice features.

Martin.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Get a Drummond/Myford M series and fit a DRO, even a home made digital caliper DRO is good nowadays

The later ones from the war era are best, with the sliding bullgear pin

Anything which is wearing out, make it new bits on the lathe

 

Some things from your roundbed will probably be transferable as well

Edited By Ady1 on 17/06/2012 10:30:22

[needleworksParticipant @needleworks]

Thanks guys, I did look at an ML7 recently, but am unsure as to how to convert it to cut metric threads. The guy that is thinking of selling has never cut threads on it, so can`t advise me how to go about it!

[NJHParticipant @njh]

The first thing to identify is just what you will use this lathe for – I know this may change over time but what you decide now will dictate just what can be done in the future. My only experience of your three manufacturers is with Warco – I have a drill- very good solid machine and a milling machine which also is a sturdy bit of kit so I have no reason to believe that the quality of this little lathe would be any different. My reservation with your selection from Warco relates to its capacity – I would find just 300mm between centres too limiting but, as I say, it will depend on your intended use. Even if turning 300mm is an infrequent event it's often nice to get the tailstock well out of the way when it's not needed!

There is an old adage that says "You can do small things on a big lathe but you can't do big things on a small lathe!"

Regards and Good luck!

Norman

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

The guy that is thinking of selling has never cut threads on it, so can`t advise me how to go about it!

—-

Could be a good deal if he chucks in a load of add on bits, sounds like he hasn't used it much

Threading is a natural progression BUT, and it's a big but, the biggest but of all, an ML7 lacks a leadscrew clutch, (which a Drummond Mseries has) and this makes threading miles easier for someone who is learning

Beats me why myford removed it with the new ML7 after the war

So an ML7 user has to "smartly disengage the leadscrew nut" at the precise moment or face disaster, not much fun if you have to do that 40 times in a row

Making up a disengagement system would probably be an essential improvement

 

If you search on "screw" and "clutch" you will get a load of returns

This is a good thread, screwcutting simplified

Edited By Ady1 on 17/06/2012 11:14:12

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

unsure as to how to convert it to cut metric threads

—

Ah hah

The imperial system will teach you that there is no such thing as metric threads or imperial threads either

There is only TPI

TPI also covers any threads from the planet zog, as well as planet earth

Metric is just a standardised term, for industrial efficiency purposes

Martin Cleeves "screwcutting in the lathe" is a good book btw

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Your Drummond has served several users for decades with probably just the occasional new belt.. 'Progress' means anything that relies on electronics for speed control rather than changing pulleys will have needed 5-10 new electric bits to reach the same age. You might want to hang on to the old lathe to kee you going whlie you wait for repair parts.

You could look at a simpler Boxford – ie CUD but not TUD which would be a a step up but not as pricey as AUD or BUD.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

You could look at a simpler Boxford

—

Must admit that some of those high quality older units like boxfords do make me drool, even though what I have is perfectly adequate

With the net and fleebay and living in the UK we have amazing choice nowadays

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Ady1 says "Making up a disengagement system would probably be an essential improvement"

Is this really good advice? How much of your lathe time will be spent screwcutting? I suggest this is a "nice to have" rather than a "must have". With my very limited experience of just a few lathes – Myford, Colchester, Harrison, Smart & Brown, Hardinge the only ones I remember having this facility were the Hardinge ( a system superbly adapted by Gray for other machines – see other threads here) and a cheap and cheerful mod to a Myford ML10 which I owned and found to be useful for giving a fine hand feed to the carriage. Slow speed ( or mandrel handle), turn a relief groove to the depth of the thread for the threading tool to finish in, concentrate and watch the thread dial indicator carefully!

N

Edited By NJH on 17/06/2012 12:00:10

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

I don't just use it for screwcutting

It's great for long roughing down jobs once things are set up

Yank in the clutch, lathes runs down the length of the job…clutch disengages…crank saddle back…put a few more thou of cut depth…yank in clutch…. rinse and repeat

[WolfieParticipant @wolfie]

Or simply keep an eye on Ebay, I bought this for £400!

It weighs 3/4 of a ton and make Myfords look like toys.

 

Edited By Wolfie on 17/06/2012 13:01:47

[JohnFParticipant @johnf59703]

Hi Needleworks, As far as capacity goes I agree with NJH buy the most capacity you think you will need and can afford to buy.

As Wolfie says there are bargains to be had but I would alway go and look at the machine before purchasing–things always look better in the photos than they turn out to be — buyer beware !!

Screwcutting — if you are going to predominantly cut metric threads then it may be wise to buy a metric machine. You can cut metric on an imperial machine and vice versa but there are certain difficulties within the process. The main one being that you must [generally] leave the leadscrew engaged for the duration of the machining, [there are of course several devices that will overcome this] Regarding Myford you can purchase a kit to make an imperial M/C cut a selection of metric pitches with the use of change wheels when the machine is fitted with a gearbox or if no gearbox you need a 63 tooth wheel to use with the rest of the change wheels to enable you to cut metric and you have to set up each thread pitch as and when requiered.

hope this helps—John

[needleworksParticipant @needleworks]

Thanks a million for all the replies guys, certainly some food for thought there !

Most of the work I was planning on doing with the lathe is quite small, but also incorporates threads on every finished piece, external and internal. If you can imagine a tube, with a cap on one end which screws on, much like a flashlight. This is the kind of work that I was predominantly planning to do, hence the reason for something that was easy to set up for threading. Most of the commercially available parts of this nature are either 0.75 or 1mm pitch, so by having these options available on the lathe, I would also have the option to make parts to match existing threads.

Hope this all makes sense!

[JohnFParticipant @johnf59703]

Hi in that case I would definatly go for a metric machine with a norton box –quick change screw cutting gearbox.

John

[JonParticipant @jon]

Wise info there John but would say it would be sods law the available selections would have 0.75 and 1mm pitch without faffing around with change wheels. Enough to turn anyone off.

One thing i miss greatly is a proper clutch, not a belt disengagement.

Its always very scary threading on those machines with just an on/off button, most are. Its only the larger decent machines that have a foot brake in conjunction with spindle start/stop. Me i still prefer a clutch use it like a car.

Needlework you will be struggling with an ML7 they only have small bore through headstock not a great deal bigger than AA. Boxfords and similar would be better otpion or a chinese, but make sure you try first as you may not like the way you would have to thread.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

If you are looking for decent efficiency on any lathe at all, a dog clutch system is a must IMO, and Graham Meek has come up with an amazing system for small lathe users

screwcutting simplified

The lathe motor direction never changes, the clutch mechanism does all that work, so there are no constant stop/starts for the electrical unit which would wear it out faster

You can also buzz back and forward if you are roughing down a job, adding a bit more cut as you go, an imaginative person would probably find all sorts of uses for such an innovative system

Martin Cleeves did some work in his definitive book screwcutting in the lathe concerning the amount of time saved by the basic automation of a manual hobby lathe and it amounted to literally weeks of time saved, which means a user can save hundreds of hours of manual effort over the years

[AndyBParticipant @andyb47186]

Hi all,

I have to agree with Ady…and not just because I am a Drummond nut!

The leadscrew clutch means that you don't have to struggle with slow hand feeds, you can use the leadscrew handwheel, without turning all the changewheels at the same time, or using the high-geared saddle traverse wheel. A calibrated hand wheel gives you the measurement that you want (you could even make a calibration ring for your Roundbed)

I have got an S7 but I find that my Drummonds are a far better machine, particularly the Ms with the stronger headstock. Nobby will disagree as he happily runs a Pre B model that is well over 100 years old. I have got a fine feed set up on my S7 but for those fiddly little bits it is better with the leadscrew wheel and I don't want to strip the changewheels just to remove the drag.

Your changewheels are identical to the later flatbeds so you are set up there. Go for the post-war Myford Ms as they have the motor mounted on a rear bracket so making a complete unit with 12 speeds, six normal and six back-gear. Keep your Roundbed as it is handy to have another machine for those little jobs that just HAVE to be done after you have set up the job in the main machine.

As to price, I have paid a maximum of £165 for any of mine…and I have got seven! (it's a long story)

That leaves a lot of money for tooling and goodies!

Of course, it is your choice, but don't pass up the idea of older machine, they really were meant to last!

Andy

Edited By Andy Belcher on 21/06/2012 21:49:00

[needleworksParticipant @needleworks]

Don`t want to count my chickens guys, but I think I "may" have secured an ML7 !! I only found out about it this week, and the bonus is that it`s nearly on my doorstep.

Will keep you posted !

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Well that looks encouraging – remember though an ML7 is now an old machine so give it a good look over. There is some good advice HERE

(Near the bottom of the page)

Good luck!

Norman

Edited By NJH on 22/06/2012 20:56:05

[Author]

Posts