Lucky escape.

[OldironParticipant @oldiron]

propane explosion

[OldironParticipant @oldiron]

Watch this video. A warning. Just goes to show what can happen when you get a propane leak on a boat or caravan. The devastation is horrific.

This beautiful boat had an automatic gas cutout between the bottle and the cooker so it is possible the flexible hose at the cooker end failed. You can never be too sure or careful about anything when it comes to gas.

A warning to us all.

BTW this couple started their adventures on a canal boat near Northampton then bought the sailboat to tour the world. They had just completed a passage from Mexico to Australia. They were lucky it did not happen at sea.

regards

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

Wonder why they didn't have an explosion proof bilge blower , and run it for 10 min before lighting anything if using gas? Must have been scary on board. Too bad.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Scary. I had a fair size boat & gas on board. Always a worry. Trouble with gas is it lays heavy. So must have gone under the floor. Or leaked from there. Hope he had some insurance. We had to get a certificate of safety. Cost £50 every year we had it done. But hey.

Steve.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Posted by Steviegtr on 13/03/2020 23:22:57:

Scary. I had a fair size boat & gas on board. Always a worry. Trouble with gas is it lays heavy. So must have gone under the floor. Or leaked from there. Hope he had some insurance. We had to get a certificate of safety. Cost £50 every year we had it done. But hey.

Steve.

Apparently the insurance refused their claim. Bastards!

Mike

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

That may be that they did not have a current safety certificate for it.

Steve.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Do they not have gas detectors nowadays?

Although from the size of the explosion it looks like it wasn't a big leak

A decent leak will take out an entire building

Edited By Ady1 on 14/03/2020 00:54:54

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, Propane is one and a half times as heavy as air, so will sink to the lowest points it can find, its flammability limits in air are 2% – 10% approximately and will expand five times its volume during an explosion, so if you have half a cubic meter of propane the explosive fireball will be two an a half cubic meters, the shock wave will be much greater. It is also an asphyxiant, so should always have good ventilation in confined spaces.

Regards Nick.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

One might notice that any and every store, where propane bottles are secured is always ventilated at ground level. Not so easy on a boat. Propane must not be stored indoors – like butane bottles can – because of the higher pressures involved.

Insurance policies have limitations and strict requirements. Companies are likely to look for any way that they can avoid paying out. Beware – it happens everywhere, not just for boat explosions!

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

So that's why propane bottles are often out in the open, or behind a flimsy cover, and look really easy to steal

It cuts down on explosions

Can't say I would like that system in a boat, I think all merchant ships have electric galleys

[Steve Skelton 1Participant @steveskelton1]

In the average pleasure boat the option of electric heating and cooking is not an option when at anchor or on a mooring so the only options are gas or diesel. Diesel cookers are not very common and are quite expensive, hence why gas is used in 95+% of all small craft.

Steve

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi NDIY, all LPG cylinders, which include butane and propylene should be stored out in the open in a well ventilated with some weather protection made from non-combustible materials and on a well drained surface, in a secure area and at least 3 meters away from all compressed gases including acetylene and hydrogen, or a suitable firewall can be used to separate them. Any part of the storage areas must not be any closer than 1 meter of any boundary of the property they are stored on. I don't think it has anything to do with pressure, it's more to do with the volatile nature of the gasses and all LPG cylinders can be stored in the same secured area, but should be segregated by gas type and full from empties. LPG's are not strictly compressed gas in the same sense as oxygen etc. as when is pressurised it turns to liquid and the pressure is limited to the space above the liquid and ambient temperature. Disposable cylinders used for portable camping stoves and blowlamps and the like, seem to have different regulations, probably due to their smaller content.

Regards Nick.

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

I watched the first 2+ minutes and nothing useful or interesting was said or shown. I'm afraid I haven't the time or patience to watch the remaining 12+ minutes.

However, some of the posts in this thread are really informative. Thanks.

George B.

[PlasmaParticipant @plasma]

Lucky it's not burned to a cinder! If fire had got hold there would be nothing to film.

I guess it was a relatively small escape of gas based on the limited damage, ie the structure of the cabin is still intact and it looks pretty cosmetic in essence. In the words of sergeant Al Powell on Die hard, "its gonna need a paint job and a shit load of screen doors"

Could have been so much worse so thankfully not a full blown tragedy.

Mick

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Nicholas Farr on 14/03/2020 10:47:48:

Hi NDIY, all LPG cylinders, which include butane and propylene should be stored out in the open in a well ventilated with some weather protection made from non-combustible materials and on a well drained surface, in a secure area and at least 3 meters away from all compressed gases including acetylene and hydrogen, or a suitable firewall can be used to separate them. Any part of the storage areas must not be any closer than 1 meter of any boundary of the property they are stored on. I don't think it has anything to do with pressure, it's more to do with the volatile nature of the gasses and all LPG cylinders can be stored in the same secured area, but should be segregated by gas type and full from empties. LPG's are not strictly compressed gas in the same sense as oxygen etc. as when is pressurised it turns to liquid and the pressure is limited to the space above the liquid and ambient temperature. Disposable cylinders used for portable camping stoves and blowlamps and the like, seem to have different regulations, probably due to their smaller content.

Regards Nick.

 

‘Fraid you are ‘teaching a granny to suck eggs’. I didn’t think anything more than noting comparison of propane storage on terra firm vs usage on a boat. All the storage rules are on the ‘net. Only butane, not propane, bottles are allowed for heating in a domestic property. That is because of the lower pressure. Propane, for cooking (or heating) requires bottles to be outside and fixed plumbing inside.

Edited By not done it yet on 14/03/2020 18:12:29

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Double post.

Edited By not done it yet on 14/03/2020 18:10:37

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Thing about boats is they make a nice air-tight bowl for heavy gas to collect in. Even slowly leaking gas can collect in the hull ready for a spark.

Remember Fanny Craddock? Her famously hen-pecked husband Johnnie was burned when their boat suffered a gas-leak fireball.

Dave

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by not done it yet on 14/03/2020 09:07:23:

One might notice that any and every store, where propane bottles are secured is always ventilated at ground level. Not so easy on a boat. Propane must not be stored indoors – like butane bottles can – because of the higher pressures involved.

Insurance policies have limitations and strict requirements. Companies are likely to look for any way that they can avoid paying out. Beware – it happens everywhere, not just for boat explosions!

Hi NDIY, sorry but you were on about storage. Yes you are correct, propane cylinders used for cooking or a gas fire indoors, must be outside and the gas piped in with a solid pipe to the appliance, only a Wally would have a propane cylinder standing in the house. Butane portable heaters are not considered as having the cylinders as storage when in use, however spare cylinders whether full or empty should be outside. The valves on these are not absolutely leak proof, I used to have one years ago and I had a spare cylinder which was always keep outside. Once I had a refill, and a few days later when it was raining, I happen to notice small bubbles coming from under the clip on cap, needless to say it went back for a replacement.

Regards Nick.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

only a Wally

I came across one. He had not installed the propane bottles inside the house, but they were inside the attached garage. His local gas supplier/installer had words with him (I did not say anything to the fellow at the time as I did not want to fall out with him – but could not let it pass as un-noticed).

One can never rely on any isolation device unless it is designed as truly ‘fail-safe’.🙂. Many safety catches on guns only prevent the trigger being pulled – not preventing an accidental discharge due to a mechanism failure. Not many are aware of that.🙂

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

Posted by not done it yet on 15/03/2020 00:20:20:

only a Wally

I came across one. He had not installed the propane bottles inside the house, but they were inside the attached garage. His local gas supplier/installer had words with him (I did not say anything to the fellow at the time as I did not want to fall out with him – but could not let it pass as un-noticed).

One can never rely on any isolation device unless it is designed as truly ‘fail-safe’.🙂. Many safety catches on guns only prevent the trigger being pulled – not preventing an accidental discharge due to a mechanism failure. Not many are aware of that.🙂

Ours is inside the house. Near to the cooker, in the kitchen.

Been that way 15 years and counting.

Also have a second LPG bottle outside, near to another cooker, in the outside 2nd kitchen.

I must be a wally too.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Like this guy – if in the UK and you blow up your house in this manner, your insurance company would decline the claim. Simple as that – without considering any other safety factors.

I also knew the father of a wally (Nick’s term, not mine) son – well, there was more than one person involved – that actually tried to change a gas bottle inside a narrow boat and burned it to a cinder. Holiday hire, and they escaped with minor burns, but apart from their Dad relating the event to us (he was a production manager and later work’s director of a large manufacturing company) I don’t recall any monetary implications, so presumably the hirers were insured against wallys like that.🙂. That was back in the late 70s, or probably early 80s, but there are still plenty of them around.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Why does this thread bring to mind the Archers?

Neil

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

Posted by not done it yet on 14/03/2020 18:09:37:

… ‘Fraid you are ‘teaching a granny to suck eggs’. ..

Or as somebody else elegantly expressed it:

Teach not thy parent's mother to extract

The embryonic juices of an egg by suction.

That worthy lady can herself the feat enact,

Quite irrespective of thy kind instruction.

George B.

[WatfordParticipant @watford]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 15/03/2020 20:13:20:

Why does this thread bring to mind the Archers?

Neil

Not sure Neil, why does it?

Mike

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Another safety hazard with LPG tanks is that being a liquid in a pressure vessel if they are heated and the pressure relief is faulty or inadequate you get a Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapour Explosion (BLEVE.). This same as a steam boiler explosion where the sudden drop in pressure causes the superheated liquid to turn to gas virtually instantly with the increase in volume causing a pressure wave. With LPG the gas then ignites causing a second (or is it third, pressure vessel, BLEVE, gas) explosion. This video shows even a vent may not be enough

**LINK**

You can get a BLEVE with any constrained liquid heated above it's boiling point.

Robert G8RPI.

[Author]

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