John Attlee

[John ATTLEEParticipant @johnattlee20632]

Introduction

[John ATTLEEParticipant @johnattlee20632]

Dear All,

I do not do model engineering (yet). I do full size tanks and tank transporters. Currently engaged on rebuilding a Meteor M12) tank engine. Basically it is an automotive fuel injected version of a Merlin engine. I hardly ever do a day working on the toys without using a lathe.

My machine shop is in a 40' ISO shipping container. I have a bigger Denham Lathe, A smaller Atlas lathe that is much older than me (63) and a Victoria U2 universal milling machine but with no horizontal top slide.

400 amp MIG & TIG welders, gas axe / sparling spanner plus usual range of other tools.

My reason for joining this forum is that others I have looked at, particularly one from US, seem to consist of members being rude to each other! What is interesting is to pick up techniques and tips from others who may have experienced the same problem before.

I am a great believer in Fusion engineering where one mates modern electronics with classic equipment and achieves fabulous results. Thus, the milling machine has DRO on three axis, the Denham lathe on two and the Atlas on one. The machines are transformed as a result.

John

[Rod RenshawParticipant @rodrenshaw28584]

While Daniel is correct on one level, I am guessing that John restores older machines to become historical exhibits or museum pieces or something of that kind, and that they will not be used in any aggressive role in their new lives. So perhaps it's not a bad thing that they are preserved as examples of man's follies.

In any event Daniel's post does not seem calculated to welcome John to the forum which is a pity as we usually welcome all new members whatever kind of work they do, on whatever kind of scale and whatever their background or level of expertise.

So, John, welcome to the forum, you will find it generally welcoming, helpful and constructive, though we have a few grumpy old sods who can't help getting on their high horses and pontificating at great length, though even they can be informative and even amusing at times.

Rod

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Oh & by the way welcome John. The only thing I can say is I promise not to fall out with you. Anybody rude , just ignore.

Steve.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Sorry about that John.

I've deleted the post mentioned above question because no matter how sincere the sentiment involved, the mods here won't allow gratuitous rudeness.

You are welcome here, and I hope this doesn't put you off being part of the forum.

Neil

[AndyAParticipant @andya]

Hi John,

Welcome to the forum. I have the privilege of working with John on some of his projects and the thinking which goes into them is quite remarkable. I'm sure pictures will be shared in time which show the thought that goes into some of these restorations.

Andy

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

Hello John and welcome. Your projects are certainly different! Hopefully you will be able to describe some of the highs and lows of military equipment restoration and maintenance.

With reference to people who are rude, there is an Ignore member at the bottom of each post.

Brian

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

Hi and welcome

H

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Hello and Welcome John. I've a friend with a couple of Diamond Ts

Last job I did for him, was new CV joint bearings for the front steering hubs.

Bill

[VicParticipant @vic]

Welcome to the forum John.

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

Hi John. Look forward to seeing some of the work you have done

[DanielParticipant @daniel]

To John and the wider audience,

Please accept my most sincere apology, for my post of yesterday.

I also agree wholeheartedly that it was removed ASAP.

At least you got a warmer welcome from the others on here.

No excuses; I should have known better than to post after a particularly difficut day.

I hope it hasn't put you off the forum.

Once again, I am very sorry for that.

ATB,

Daniel

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember19781]

[This posting has been removed]

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Thanks Daniel.

Neil

[John ATTLEEParticipant @johnattlee20632]

Dear All,

Thank you for your warm welcome.

I did not see Daniel's post so I take no offence but welcome his retraction. In any case, I am sure that plenty of people are very rude about me on-line but I don't see that either!

I can assure everyone that I do not do engineering for current military equipment but although I would do so if it was required. Most of my work is in support of the REME Museum which is a registered charity. Nevertheless, I do have a very strong background in the military, defence and security. I have served for over 40 years in the TA, particularly in the REME.

I believe that it is of paramount importance that we keep ourselves safe and secure by being able to deter aggression. We failed to do that in the late 1930s and got our posterior kicked hard. Our current defence and security situation is a political matter and not appropriate for this forum.

I do believe that there is a value to preserving military vehicles and other equipment. During the Cold War we cleverly spent no more money on defence than necessary to deter, whereas our opponents spent all their available resource on defence and not on washing machines and other consumer goods. However, we made some horrible mistakes and I think it is good to keep them on show.

A classic example is seen with the REME Museum's 1958 Conqueror Armoured Recovery Vehicle that I work on. It was designed at a time when the Government's decision was to re-arm and increase defence expenditure. The vehicle really was a very good ARV but the designers were profligate with resource and public money on this and other projects. The main winch was good but the winch spade fitted to the rear of the tank to resist the pull of the winch was far too exquisite. The hydraulic system consisted of two pumps which ran the system at full pressure whenever the PTO was engaged. There were hydraulic pipes everywhere.

The spade was pinned to the back of the tank with precision pins but it's working load limit was 135 tons. What would be wrong with 3" dia pins with a 40 thou clearance? Even more profligate was the means of securing the two hydraulic rams that lifted the spade. The rod and cylinder ends were secured with spherical bearings (even though the spade was secured with precision pins). These must have been fabulously expensive, bearing in mind that they only built 23 of these vehicles. Again, what would have been wrong with a nice sloppy fit that could accommodate any misalignment?

Finally, the tension links which prevented to spade from folding right underneath the tank. Obviously, precision pins again with only a few thou clearance. Extraordinarily, the links failed under maximum load and had to be replaced by forged links to withstand the load.

I apologise for, unusually, going on a bit. However, the story about the Conqueror is one all about engineering. Yes it was exquisite but it was far from economical or easy to manufacture. That is the lesson to be taken on board. If you think that we are not making similar mistakes with Defence equipment, dream on!

I look forward to contributing to this forum and picking up some useful techniques.

John

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Welcome to the forum John, I spent 22years working on defence equipment albeit in the Air Force but I see where you are coming from with your appraisals of military equipment design, would love to see photos of your restorations.
Dave W

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

I did at times support the Armoured regts in BAOR. on the range the Conquoror was a big squeaky lumbering beast but the gun at 120mm was able to destroy any tank at that time. With HESH it took off lumps of metal from the inside of the target tank and it's APDS went through the target leaving a BIG hole. Sadly one sat outside at 12 Inf. workshop for at least a year waiting for non existant spares.

Later I was to see them as target tanks themselves at Worcop being smashed to pieces by Chieftens.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Welcome John!

Hope that you like it here.

Mostly we try to help each other, and being even slightly rude is unusual. (Sometimes feel like it but mostly resist the temptation )

Good to see another aspect of engineering being made public.

Howard

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