It would happen now!

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember19781]

[This posting has been removed]

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Posted by Bill Chugg on 14/04/2020 11:48:50:

Posted by Grindstone Cowboy on 14/04/2020 11:42:25:

Posted by Bill Chugg on 14/04/2020 11:03:17:

Rob

Is it a gas boiler that Clive has ?

Bill

I would hazard a guess that it is, given he said he's using no gas now

Oh dear, silly me . Can you believe I read that post and that bit did not register.

Thanks Rob

Bill

Not a problem, I do it all the time

[Martin Shaw 1Participant @martinshaw1]

Clive

I'm with Grindstone Cowboy and Phil on this, fitted an Intergas HRE24 three years ago which I am very pleased with, the heat exchanger is a model of good design and will not suffer as a plate heat exchanger does especially in high water hardness areas. If you get it fitted by an Intergas registered engineer I think you can get a 10 year warranty.

Regards

Martin

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

The price quoted to the OP is in ground source heat pump territory, price seems to be dropping steadily as the system becomes more popular. Although not in the market for a replacement at the moment it will be my next heating system, probably won't get a choice!

I presently use solid fuel, fed up with unreliable gas boilers.

John

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Thank youm gentlemen, all good info. spent an hour talking to an engineer from Swale gas based near me in Sittingbourne. Quite busy around this area.

End result is a quote of £2788 to do the fitting of a wall mounted boiler, a WorcesterGreenstar.18R1 A rated boiler plus pipe work and flue connection.

They will look at the Gledhill hot tank and if necessary repair it.

I am happy with that quote so will tell them to go ahead soonest.

PS, if hot tank no good then another quote! All within 48 hrs.

Clive

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

I was talking to a house gadgets chap a few years ago and he had put in solar pv, a windy turbine, and that solar thermal water panel system on his house in Edinburgh

He was on the coast with plenty wind and a clear field of view south from his roof

The only system he recommended was those water thermal panels

everything else needed to be scaled up bigtime to be really useful

Of course all these systems are gradually becoming more and more efficient as well as cheaper

[VicParticipant @vic]

We got a 12 year warranty with our Worcester Bosch but I think it depends who installs it. Ours had a power flush, inhibitor, some kind of magnetic thing and also a replaceable filter.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

I have the Magnetic water treatment attached to the input from the mains. As such the water is still hard and chalky here in Kent. Southern water extract most of its water from the river Medway above Maidstone but up here on the North Downs most is borehole water and chalky. Occasionally we get a supply of softer water when the soap will lather, so nice. All this means that the boilers and tanks get chalked up, a small leak will soon show a deposit of calcite at the leak. Shower heads soon chalk up and I have two which I alternate for cleaning. Kettles fur up as well.

Queried a water softener and was amazed at the price, £800 – £1000, considered but have nowhere to install it.

People live longer in hard water areas so thats OK.

Clive

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

The heat exchanger of the boiler+the hot water tank coil+ room radiators should/must be on a separate circuit

topped up for evaporation only from a head tank well dosed up with a water treatment agent.

If the water drained from a radiation vent doesn't feel soapy between the fingers ,you have a corrosion problem on the way.

Sorry if it's telling Granny about eggs, etc.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Martin Connelly –

" …had no choice but to put in a heat pump system where he lives as that is government policy. "

Does he live in the UK? If so he could still have had a gas boiler.

Unless it's been changed, UK government policy will be to fit new homes with no gas supplies, but not until after a certain date, in 2025 I think.

' ' '

Clive Hartland –

Magnetic water-conditioners, both permanent-magnet and electromagnet, were all the rage some years back; and you could even buy ones for the petrol pipe in your car engine, supposedly to improve fuel-efficiency. There was never any conclusive evidence even then that they work in either application.

A friend in the trade said he's never known them to be effective. He also warned me if I fit a water-softener as I'd considered, that the saving is not as much as it seems from capital cost alone, thanks to spending quite a lot of money a year on salt. They've also been know to exacerbate boiler-corrosion but the boiler manufacturers may have solved that.

I fitted an electromagnetic conditioner but it didn't last long. It was in the airing-cupboard in my bedroom, its coil round the rising-main supplying the immersion-tank – I had no boiler. One night while in bed, I heard a sizzling sound… the mains-driven conditioner trying to catch fire. Needless to say I unplugged it immediately and watched it until it had cooled down. I have not fitted one, of either type, since.

'

The original condensing boilers that were enforced didn't last long thanks to very thin, aluminium heat-exchangers, and even very weak electrolytes are corrosive to aluminium. I think the boilers made now by the reputable companies are much better – cutting corners to cut costs may ultimately only cut profits!

(At work, I knew but the designers could not understand, why some of their marine-engineering prototypes made of anodised aluminium screwed together with stainless-steel fasteners emerged from a few days in a test-tank of fresh water, looking very tatty. Yet the water contained only swimming-pool disinfectant and pH correctors kept at swimming-pool levels – part of my work as a lowly lab assistant lacking credibility thanks to no Very Hard Sums-ology.)

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

We had an Ideal condensing combi boiler fitted back in 2000, it lasted just 14 days before it broke down, a circuit board fault, replaced under warranty. During the next 12 years it managed to eat 8 boards in total, cost of a board then was £180 plus, but due to my continued insistence that it was crap manufacturing Ideal covered all the costs. We decided it was time to fit a new boiler we could rely on, the heating engineer recommended a new model of Ideal boiler, we were very reluctant to have another after the problems we had with the first one, we went with it and in the 8 years to date only problem has been a leaking diverter valve which was replaced under warranty, a bought in component not manufactured by Ideal. Most manufacturers give a suitable length of warranty, ranging from 5 to 12 years, I think initially condensing boilers had bad press because they were relatively new technology and manufacturers had problems with supply of the circuit boards, they are complex compared to what went before and it took time for manufacturers to get to grips with the balance between quality and cost. You need to find an installer that you trust, a sensible estimate is usually the first step.
Dave W

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

I too had an electric hard water conditioner fitted when it was all the rage, I had forgotten about it but it is still there.

I was never really convinced about it's effectiveness & it seems to do bugger all.

Tony

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

Nigel, correct, not in UK.

Martin C

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Clive Hartland on 14/04/2020 15:44:45:

Thank youm gentlemen, all good info. spent an hour talking to an engineer from Swale gas based near me in Sittingbourne. Quite busy around this area.

End result is a quote of £2788 to do the fitting of a wall mounted boiler, a WorcesterGreenstar.18R1 A rated boiler plus pipe work and flue connection.

They will look at the Gledhill hot tank and if necessary repair it.

I am happy with that quote so will tell them to go ahead soonest.

PS, if hot tank no good then another quote! All within 48 hrs.

Clive

Sounds a lot to fit a £900 boiler, and you definitely don't need a that water tank with a combi boiler. The greenstar will give you hot water at a higher pressure and faster rate than most tanks.

[Peter SpinkParticipant @peterspink21088]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 15/04/2020 12:24:21:

Posted by Clive Hartland on 14/04/2020 15:44:45:

Thank youm gentlemen, all good info. spent an hour talking to an engineer from Swale gas based near me in Sittingbourne. Quite busy around this area.

End result is a quote of £2788 to do the fitting of a wall mounted boiler, a WorcesterGreenstar.18R1 A rated boiler plus pipe work and flue connection.

They will look at the Gledhill hot tank and if necessary repair it.

I am happy with that quote so will tell them to go ahead soonest.

PS, if hot tank no good then another quote! All within 48 hrs.

Clive

Sounds a lot to fit a £900 boiler, and you definitely don't need a that water tank with a combi boiler. The greenstar will give you hot water at a higher pressure and faster rate than most tanks.

Greenstar 18Ri is a system boiler not a combi

I would say installation cost is ballpark depending on which part of the country (!)

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Aluminium alloy parts in a system where there is copper is a recipe for corrosion, because of the electrolytic action..

One our of marine gearbox suppliers thought it a good idea to cast copper pipes into an Aluminium alloy casing, to carry raw water for cooling. Needless to say that resulted in a campaign to fit redesigned units!

In my book, with copper pipes, only stainless for heat exchangers.

Howard

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

An update about the system, this morning an engineer arrived to do a pre-instal check and confirmedthat the boiler and flue were u/s.

Then checked the Gledhill hot tank and confirmed that it to was leaking so re-quoted and I accepted the quote. This is now £4890.

Work starts at 0800 Tomorrow Thurs. and will last 2 days.

I have a drinking water 5 gall plastic container so I have filled it up pending the water cut off, it has a tap and I tipped it over to check and the water started to leak out of a crack under the spout. So, Super Glue, smeared all over the crack and left and so far all good.

The ante room off the kitchen is where the boler is situated and I have had to clean it all out ready, where does all this stuff come from? Dog wanted to see everything as I moved it.

I will keep a safe distance from the workers and wear a mask.Thinking back I was having mild headaches but accepted them, as the flue was perforated I wonder if I was getting carbon monoxide poisining? No headache today.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Hi Clive

Hows the boiler installation going?

Just to chear you up here is a picture of our beehives at the Lab. They live on top of the energy centre (we have a separate building for all the heavy plant).

regards Martin

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

The "combi" boiler seems to be the most common type fitted these days. On big advantage is that there is always hot water, unlike the stored hot water system.

So, when the combi boiler fails there is no immersion heater in the hot water tank as a stand by. How do people cope with that?

John

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember19781]

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[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Cold showers are very invigorating and use less fuel !!

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

the logical answer is I think an electric shower in the bathroom – kitchen need for hot water can usually be met by kettles + washing machines etc these days need to be fed from cold supply – only real need is for baths and in many water supply areas the providers tend to push the use of showers

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Ongoing installation now, with issues. Checking the gas a leak was noted with the Manometer. only two appliances, the gas boiler and the living room gas fire (Which is never used) Check the gas tap on it and leak is gone so is the gas fire!

Boiler is in the process of being hung on the wall and hot tank is in, leccie man busy connecting.

Martin, due to my trapped nerve andleft leg problem have not done bees since last year, now down to two hives only. I will look later on. It looks bleak for bee keepers this year.

No hot water so it was a strip wash this morning, at my age a cold shower s defo not on!.

[John BaguleyParticipant @johnbaguley78655]

Posted by John MC on 17/04/2020 08:50:08:

The "combi" boiler seems to be the most common type fitted these days. On big advantage is that there is always hot water, unlike the stored hot water system.

So, when the combi boiler fails there is no immersion heater in the hot water tank as a stand by. How do people cope with that?

John

Another disadvantage of a combi is that you can waste a lot of water waiting for the hot water to come through, unless you have the type with a built in storage tank. In the kitchen I run the water into a 2 litre milk bottle until it gets hot and use that to fill the kettle.

John

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

I am glad to say that the new system is up and running, I was pleased with the way the engineer went about it. He was definitely an expert.

Using a manometer on the gas meter he declared there was a gas leak, as only two appliances in use he checked the gas fire in the lounge and sure enough it was leaking gas at the cut off valve. As the gas pipes go under the suspended floor it would have been impossible to repair The outcome is that I told him to take the gas fire out and block off that gas riser. The Manometer then said , 'No leak'.

It will take me a little while to get used to the controls though.

It has been cold today with the East wind and I was glad when the room warmed up. I do tend to feel the cold now.

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