Dry Moly Lubricant Spray

[Neil AParticipant @neila]

During a sort out of my shed I can across a can of Dry Moly Lubricant Spray made by Ambersil. I have used this in the past on worm gear applications and I wondered if anyone had used it for the teeth of change gears on a lathe instead of thick oil or grease?

The data sheet gives open gears as one example of its use, it also states that it will prevent scuffing and reduce friction. It sounds ideal for change gears but I have never seen it mentioned in any of the lathe handbooks or any forums.

Does anyone have any views on its use, I'm just interested to know.

Neil

[Neil AParticipant @neila]

Change gear use?

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Well, all lubricants are supposed to prevent scuffing and reduce friction!

Manufacturers' claims are sometimes optimistic ("WD" actually stands for "Water Dispersant", not "Worm Drives" ) but if you've found this lubricant satisfactory on worm-gears I'd think it safe on change-wheels.

I would though suggest being quite thorough with it, because it might not be carried from tooth to tooth as readily as conventional oil.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Neil,

I can’t see it doing any harm:

**LINK**

https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/494125.pdf

but it seems awfully extravagant, at about £20 a can

.

As my Liverpudlian friends used to say:

… Like using a Rolls Royce to kill a pig.

MichaelG.

.

P.S. __ The safety data-sheet seems to be all about the hazards that come with it being in spray cans

https://tech-beac.com/sites/default/files/support-document/MSDS-AMBERSIL-DRY-MOLY-400%20ml_0.pdf

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 26/09/2022 05:22:26

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

[ Sanity Check ]

Molybdenum Disulphide is good stuff

… as a dry powder, it is also relatively cheap: **LINK**

https://lowerfriction.com/dry-solid-lubricant-powders/molybdenum-disulfide-mos2-powder/

How did mankind get into the state of insanity where tiny quantities are sold in expensive and hazardous packages

MichaelG.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 26/09/2022 05:41:56:

[ Sanity Check ]

Molybdenum Disulphide is good stuff

… as a dry powder, it is also relatively cheap: **LINK**

https://lowerfriction.com/dry-solid-lubricant-powders/molybdenum-disulfide-mos2-powder/

How did mankind get into the state of insanity where tiny quantities are sold in expensive and hazardous packages

MichaelG.

I don't know, I have a 1 lb tin of it courtesy of the USAF. They chucked a load out as lifetime expired! I also acquired several large dural billets via the same logic.

regards Marin

[Graham MeekParticipant @grahammeek88282]

Back in the 1980's Myford used to supply a Rocol product, (I think it was MOS, or MS), which was similar to the spray on sort that you have. I have been using for many years Molykote GN paste, comes in a tube and I apply it with an artists broad paint brush to my change wheels.

It does stay put once applied and does not fly everywhere which is what tends to happen with some greases.

Regards

Gray,

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I use oil on the change gears. Anything that might stick to them, and cause wear, is either thrown or washed off. I don’t really want grinding paste between my gears.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Sounds good to me, just be careful not to get the stuff on yourself, moly is dirty black stuff.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Surely if you want to lubricate gears use an ep oil and if it flys off you have put too much on. I have something that clears that up it’s called a rag!

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

I used it a lot back when I was working on part's of plant where I didn't want any contamination from the lubricant, but I never used it on gears

H

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Martin Kyte on 26/09/2022 09:20:38:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 26/09/2022 05:41:56:

[ Sanity Check ]

Molybdenum Disulphide is good stuff

…

MichaelG.

…I have a 1 lb tin of it courtesy of the USAF. They chucked a load out as lifetime expired! …

Molybdenum Disulphide goes off by oxidising in air. The decay isn't serious enough to worry a light-duty requirement like lubricating change gears, but even mildly cruddy lubricants are best avoided in aircraft!

I guess the USAF's 'use by' date assumes the worst case scenario, such as a can being repeatedly shipped between hot and cold airbases in an unpressurised aircraft, causing the can to breath much more air than it would in a shed.

Dave

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 27/09/2022 16:39:00:

Posted by Martin Kyte on 26/09/2022 09:20:38:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 26/09/2022 05:41:56:

[ Sanity Check ]

Molybdenum Disulphide is good stuff

…

MichaelG.

…I have a 1 lb tin of it courtesy of the USAF. They chucked a load out as lifetime expired! …

Molybdenum Disulphide goes off by oxidising in air. The decay isn't serious enough to worry a light-duty requirement like lubricating change gears, but even mildly cruddy lubricants are best avoided in aircraft!

I guess the USAF's 'use by' date assumes the worst case scenario, such as a can being repeatedly shipped between hot and cold airbases in an unpressurised aircraft, causing the can to breath much more air than it would in a shed.

Dave

These were unopened tins. Good for slideways.

Martin

[David NobleParticipant @davidnoble71990]

.

As my Liverpudlian friends used to say:

… Like using a Rolls Royce to kill a pig.

MichaelG.

Michael,

Once again you nearly made me spill my tea.

David

[Graham StoppaniParticipant @grahamstoppani46499]

Posted by Martin Kyte on 27/09/2022 18:26:09:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 27/09/2022 16:39:00:

Posted by Martin Kyte on 26/09/2022 09:20:38:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 26/09/2022 05:41:56:

[ Sanity Check ]

Molybdenum Disulphide is good stuff

…

MichaelG.

…I have a 1 lb tin of it courtesy of the USAF. They chucked a load out as lifetime expired! …

Molybdenum Disulphide goes off by oxidising in air. The decay isn't serious enough to worry a light-duty requirement like lubricating change gears, but even mildly cruddy lubricants are best avoided in aircraft!

I guess the USAF's 'use by' date assumes the worst case scenario, such as a can being repeatedly shipped between hot and cold airbases in an unpressurised aircraft, causing the can to breath much more air than it would in a shed.

Dave

These were unopened tins. Good for slideways.

Martin

I was MD of a chemical manufacturing company supplying the aerospace industry amongst others. Most of our products, if left unopened in their containers, had an indefinite shelf life. However, some of our customers insisted we gave our products a use-by date. We were happy to comply.

In some cases where product had reached its use by date we would, at the customers request, remove it from their site and replace it with new product. They would be charged for the removal and for the new product. Rather than sending the old product to landfill we would either revalidate and repackage it ready for sale once more or rework it with the next batch of product.

As an accountant by trade I was rather fond of use by dates…

Graham

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Graham Stoppani on 28/09/2022 06:58:20:

[…]

As an accountant by trade I was rather fond of use by dates…

Graham

.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Graham Stoppani on 28/09/2022 06:58:20:

Posted by Martin Kyte on 27/09/2022 18:26:09:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 27/09/2022 16:39:00:

Posted by Martin Kyte on 26/09/2022 09:20:38:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 26/09/2022 05:41:56:

[ Sanity Check ]

Molybdenum Disulphide is good stuff

…

MichaelG.

…I have a 1 lb tin of it courtesy of the USAF. They chucked a load out as lifetime expired! …

Molybdenum Disulphide goes off by oxidising in air. The decay isn't serious enough to worry a light-duty requirement like lubricating change gears, but even mildly cruddy lubricants are best avoided in aircraft!

I guess the USAF's 'use by' date assumes the worst case scenario, such as a can being repeatedly shipped between hot and cold airbases in an unpressurised aircraft, causing the can to breath much more air than it would in a shed.

Dave

These were unopened tins. Good for slideways.

Martin

I was MD of a chemical manufacturing company supplying the aerospace industry amongst others. Most of our products, if left unopened in their containers, had an indefinite shelf life. However, some of our customers insisted we gave our products a use-by date. We were happy to comply.

In some cases where product had reached its use by date we would, at the customers request, remove it from their site and replace it with new product. They would be charged for the removal and for the new product. Rather than sending the old product to landfill we would either revalidate and repackage it ready for sale once more or rework it with the next batch of product.

As an accountant by trade I was rather fond of use by dates…

Graham

An accountant might well see it that way, but the historically the military have had severe problems with suppliers not understanding how their product might be treated in peace-time and no idea about the way stores are abused in war-time! For that reason, the military often call for triple layer packaging or more, with full labelling inside each layer identifying the part by name and stock number, plus relevant information about date packed, shelf-life, hazards etc etc. The packaging may also have a shelf life! Ridiculously extreme by most civilians standards, but it's not done for civilians.

The idea is to make sure the guys being shot at aren't let down by duff spares, whether damaged in transit, poorly stored or by old-age. As this is extremely difficult to get right I strongly suggest it's best for suppliers to meet requirements set by the customer's engineer. Possibly he made a mistake, more likely he knows much more about the product and how it might be used than the supplier.

Martin commented: These were unopened tins, which is fine and dandy except sealed tins leak! Not much, but enough to be a problem if the customer has identified it as an issue. As I said, I don't think using degraded Molybdenum Disulphide on a lathe would matter at all.

I just note that as an inorganic chemical, Molybdenum Disulphide isn't completely stable. Unlike Common Salt it doesn't have an almost unlimited shelf-life.

I think the main problem with use-by dates is they never explain the underlying assumptions. Products stored in favourable conditions often last much longer than the use by date, whilst the same product stored unfavourably is likely to go off rather quickly. But we aren't told what favourable and unfavourable are. So use by dates are guidance rather than exact times, and the value of the guidance depends on our circumstances.

Dave

[Graham MeekParticipant @grahammeek88282]

I made a mistake with the Rocol reference earlier. Having found an old tube of the grease in the workshop yesterday, the correct reference is MTS 1000.

Molykote GN which I mentioned earlier was one of the many greases used to service the Radiotherapy machines or Linear Accelerators which were in the Oncology Workshops care. Being used in close proximity to the beam it never showed any signs of degradation, or drying out. It was never thrown about by the various gears it was used on.

Hence why I started using the same thing on my lathe changewheels.

Regards

Gray,

[Neil AParticipant @neila]

I was interested to see the comments on the use of the dry moly spray, I'm not sure that at the current price I would buy another can, but you never know. The only thing that has stopped me actually using it on the change gears is the thought of degreasing all those teeth before being able to spraying it on. It needs a clean surface for it to be able to stick successfully.

I might have a go at the gears that are used for the fine feed and see how long it lasts, probably a long term test, otherwise the can will most likely stay on the shelf.

Thanks to everyone for the input, being retired, this forum is now the only place that I have to bounce my thoughts off others and get their opinions.

Neil

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 27/09/2022 16:39:00:

Molybdenum Disulphide goes off by oxidising in air.

I'm kind of wondering if the end product includes sulphuric acid…….
Probably not critical though.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 27/09/2022 16:39:00:

Molybdenum Disulphide goes off by oxidising in air.

.

I’m not arguing, Dave … I don’t have the knowledge

But if you’re sure of that, you might consider editing its page on Wikipedia:

MichaelG.

.

Chemical reactions[edit]

Molybdenum disulfide is stable in air and attacked only by aggressive reagents.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

When I said lifetime expired I was talking about the USAF attitude to stuff rather than the absolute nature of the item. They have been known to lifetime expire stillson wrenches. I did however acquire a large block of dural about 1 foot square and 3 long also deemed lifed. I can kind of understand that one but they are very reluctant to hang on to anything for too long.
Unfortunately the pipeline to the base has died so supplies have dried up.
I was offered a strange set of what I could only think were gauges for gun barrels. Very accurately made cylinders of constant length but diminishing diameter over quite a small range.

Don’t remember the diameter but it seemed likely size for one of the guns that do about a thousand rounds a second on the fighters.

regards Martin

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

I would not put nasty messy black moly lube on change gears. Change gears barely need any lubrication at all. They are a low-pressure, low power, low rpm application. A little bit of ordinary oil is all that is needed. If the gears are cast iron, even that is barely needed.

To save mess on mine, I use clear teflon motorbike chain lube spray, which I have in the shed anyway.

Edited By Hopper on 15/10/2022 02:56:50

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