Does this have a name?

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

I've come across a water service valve buried in house wall. It's an isolation for exterior tap, and the only access (without pulling wall apart) is down a small hole perhaps 10mm diameter.

Rather than the standard screwdriver slot to twist the ball, this valve has a raised bar across a rounded dimple.

I speculate that the key/tool to operate it would look like

I've searched on-line for similar valves, or the tool to operate, but have failed to find anything. Does anyone here know a name for valves of this type? or where I can get a key?

I can make a key, but will be largely guesswork as measuring down the access hole is not easy.

 

Edited By David Jupp on 20/11/2022 17:04:10

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Unusual water service valve (and its key).

[Martin Shaw 1Participant @martinshaw1]

Sounds like it might be a 1/4 turn plug cock. Age will determine whether anything is available commercially but I would suggest that it's not recent. When I was working I came across them occasionally as the drain valve for a hot water cylinder and not really suited for high pressure applications, i.e mains water.

Martin

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Martin,

Thanks – I'm pretty sure it is a 1/4 turn ball valve, similar to the ones that have a screwdriver slot. I can just make out compression fitting at one side of the valve when peering down the hole in the wall.

I was hoping to find either a key, or details of the valve that I could measure/estimate sizes from to make my own key.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

That sounds more like the sort of coupling you would find on a motorised valve. I wonder if somone repurposed the valve part of a motorised assembly?

Robert G8RPI.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

If you can get to the pipe from inside the house, then fit a new valve where you can get at it.

Disturbing an old valve buried inside a wall as asking for trouble.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I fully agree with Dave Halford, do not think about turning it. Years ago when fitting central heating to my bungalow, I found the main stopcock in the path didn't want to turn fully off, and I broke it off. I changed the stopcock inside the house with a trickle of water running, helped immensely by the old nut and olive fitting the new tap. The broken stopcock was 2 feet below the surface in a 4" diameter hole. The tap handle had broken at the square end of the brass shaft leaving about an inch projecting. I rushed out to a very good local tool shop and bought set of three 1/2" drive stud extractors, the type that look like a long socket with internal rollers and a 12" extension. Together with my extensions, one of the extractors fitted and turned the stopcock back on. Years later a new main was pushed through about 4 feet deep for all the houses and a brand new plastic stopcock was fitted, all without digging a trench through 120 yards of front gardens, clever, these water board guys are, I thought.

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Dave / Old Mart,

The valve is inside a boxed in section of wall just inside the property. There is already a hole for a valve key in the board over the pipe/valve. As the valve is inside (and assuming it to be a 1/4 turn) valve, it is unlikely to have seized – if it has that will become obvious when I attempt (carefully) to turn it.

Replacing the valve would require removing/replacing the boarding, and consequent re-decorating – hence I'd like to try closing the valve through the access hole that was clearly put there for that purpose. It's a pity no key was provided!

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by David Jupp on 21/11/2022 08:55:40:

…

As the valve is inside (and assuming it to be a 1/4 turn) valve, it is unlikely to have seized – if it has that will become obvious when I attempt (carefully) to turn it.

Replacing the valve would require removing/replacing the boarding, and consequent re-decorating – hence I'd like to try closing the valve through the access hole that was clearly put there for that purpose. …

I don't think the valve being inside has any effect on whether it's seized or not. What matters is the nature of your water, hard soft etc, and – most of all – how long it's been since the valve was last moved.

When my interior stop-cock seized I was able to force it closed but the cock twisted on it's compression fittings, damaged the pipes, and both joints started to drip. I managed to fix that by retightening, but it left the pipes in a precarious state. About a year later, I had to turn off the stop cock again, and the same thing happened except it was impossible to stop the leaks. Fitting a new stop-cock to cleaned up pipes became a nightmare when it turned out the incoming plastic pipe needed an imperial top-hat gland that's unobtainium. (being a metric fanboy, I used 'industrial language' on the idiot who had decided in the early 1970s it was OK to make a modern pipe and seal system in imperial rather than going metric; it seems the imperial version didn't last long, making spare parts hard to find, turning a straightforward job into a pig.

I agree it's worth a try. However, I recommend preparing for the worst! Don't attempt it when the shops are closed, you don't have the right tools, and plumbers are on strike!

Dave

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Please can we keep this on topic? I'm aware of the risks of seized valves (I judge it unlikely – I could be wrong, risk is on my own head. This is NOT a stop cock – it's a service valve (1/4 turn ball valve)). I do know where the stop cock is, and that isn't seized.

All I'm looking for is if anyone knows a name/term that might help to find a similar valve or the matching key via a search engine (as everything I tried had failed).

I'll probably end up choosing a few different diameter rods from my scrap box, round one end in the lathe, cut a slot with hacksaw then go to site and file to adjust.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

David

Although I have never seen one quite like you describe … I suspect you have a ‘tamper-proof’ valve which has been usefully re-purposed.

Conceptually similar to the one discussed here: **LINK**

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/tamper-proof-angle-stops-argh.36826/

… but obviously differing in detail.

Think of all those annoying screws on modern electrical appliances, or of all the variations on car wheel-nut design.

.

I think ‘reverse engineering’ a key for what you have is probably the best bet.

MichaelG.

.

Edited after more careful reading of your opening post.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 21/11/2022 10:02:52

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Please forgive a slight digression …

Here is a quite informative ‘advertorial’ about ball-valves in general: **LINK**

Ball Valve Basics

MichaelG.

[Author]

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