Advise needed on L5A (11″) Lathe

[BowberParticipant @bowber]

Hi all.

Been a lurker here for many years and not posted much but here goes.

I'm wanting a bit of advise re my old Harrison 11" lathe. It has the L00 nose and I've had it for over 20 years. It came out of a collage and was reasonably worn when I got it.
I used to use it constantly for making parts for various projects and I guess I wore with it but now after a period of not much use I've been using it to make some parts and I'm finding it turns tapers >0.05mm over 50mm so that's quite bad.
After a bit of investigation I've concluded the headstock bearings are worn but there is also wear in the bed, I've not measured this yet but a simple rule test shows it clearly.

So do I sell it as a well worn lathe with all it's bits, I think I got everything with it, even had a taper turning attachment that may still be hanging around, or sell the bits on a well known site, or try to find new headstock bearings and see if it's still usable with the wear on the bed?

I must admit I'm leaning towards selling it complete or in bits and using the money towards a new lathe or very good second hand one. New would be nice instead of having part worn bit's n bobs but it's an expensive option and I know I'll not get as good a lathe as the Harrison used to be, but a new chinese lathe will be a lot more accurate and would probably last me a lot of years. The Harrison was also on the large side for most of my work so a smaller lathe isn't a problem.
What do the buyers of a current new lathe think of them compared to an old lathe, are they worth looking at?

Steve

[BowberParticipant @bowber]

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Steve, at least starting with a bigger lathe, you know the maximum size of work you are likely to do. Truing up the bed/regrind, and new bearings would be quite expensive I think. A good quality new lathe should serve you well if you go that way, or you could look at something like a Boxford in a some what less worn state than the Harrison.

Ian S C

[BowberParticipant @bowber]

Hi Ian.

I'm undecided. If I found a very good older lathe like a boxford then I think I'd probably buy it but it'd need to be in good condition and have a good selection of equipment.
If i bought a new machine then I'd be getting all the basic equipment to start with but it'd also be quite a hefty investment.
Also the bore through the spindle is a consideration, one of the handy things about an old industrial lathe, but there are ways around this and it's not been essential so far.
I've had one or two items were the swing has been handy and the gap has been out for one job I can remember but I'd have found another way to do the job.
I've only just started thinking about this so I've got lots of ideas going around in my head and it's always good to talk to other like minded people who'll come up with points I'd not considered.

Re the Harrison, I think it's just tired and has been a good lathe but I'm now having to spend more time taking inaccuracy into consideration than doing the job. I've also tried jacking corners etc and can't get it to change. In fact the base cabinet is so strong I can lift it at one corner and a DTI on the tool post position shows no movement on a bar in the chuck. I get more movement by pushing and pulling on the tailstock.

Steve

[BowberParticipant @bowber]

Forgot to add, I also have a CNC mill now which is one of the reasons the lathe hasn't seen as much use, there are many jobs I'd have gone to the lathe for that now get done on the mill.

Steve

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Could it be the chuck? I think you need to more carefully determine the contribution from bearings and bed. The effect of bed wear will be diameter related I think so you might be able to get a very small second lathe for small work.
The action of lifting corners etc relating to 'levelling' would affect long workpieces more than at 2in so not surprised it wasn't a cure but impressed at the machine's rigidity.

[ManofkentParticipant @manofkent]

Bowler. My Harrison L5 also turned tapers when I got it. I levelled the bed (this made no difference), then reset the tail stock, which was about 10 thou over one side. This got a test piece between centres running to within half a thou over 12 inches, I could live with that. But work gripped in the chuck still wasn't straight, and eventually I found an article in the ME about re grinding your chuck, made the jaw holders from some scrap and clamped a hand drill to the tool post. This really did the trick. It might be worth trying some of these things before saying goodbye to the lathe as they are brilliant.

[BowberParticipant @bowber]

Hi, thanks for the replies.

Believe me I'd rather keep it, I've got the measurements in various ways and the bed wear happens in a pattern up to the most worn area, I can feel it on the V with my finger. The DTI also confirms it and shows the bed moving towards the middle of the lathe as you get closer to the chuck. This is measured against the side of the bed.

I can repeat the taper turning consistently on large or small diameter work and can get the same measurement using a 40mm ground bar held in the chuck only.
DTI zeroed at the chuck end at the average runout on one full turn, move to the outer end and take the average of the runout and it has moved away from the tool post. This method removes error from chuck or bent bar.

I'll admit I've not done a super accurate check but all my checks are adding up to the same error. It also seems that most of the error is from the bed wear and not from the head stock bearings.
I'm going to do some more checks before making a decision but as it is the lathe can not create accurate shafts.

Any one using lathes like the Warco or similar.

Steve

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

Hi Steve,

I've had Warco lathes for many years and have no complaints. Current machines are a GH1330 and a WM250V..

Cannot fault them for accuracy and rigidity. I recently moved the 1330 from one side of the workshop to t'other and once set up and levelled it is still turning true and parallel along its full bed length.

The smaller WM250 was taken out of the crate and bolted down onto a solid steel bench with a 40mm composite worktop top, accuracy is .0005" over it's entire length. I haven't tried using the 3 jaw on that as it is setup with a 5C collet chuck which suits most of the work it is intended for.

If you have any questions please ask.

[BowberParticipant @bowber]

Thanks for the info about the Warco lathes. There is no way the Harrison would turn parallel over that length and i don't think it ever has.
I did have a large Pultra for a while and that was very accurate but unfortunately it didn't have a saddle feed and I didn't want to ruin it by adding one so I sold it.

Steve

[JonParticipant @jon]

Had same trouble with my 140 and scrapped it 4 1/2 years ago. Not worth a crude regrind £800 plus disassembly, delivery of parts and assembly. Coolant, 11" 4 jaw, 3 jaws, travelling steady, fixed steady, C spanners, full set of change wheels £200. Would have looked brand new renovated as most are but still scrap.

Mine much worse than 0.05mm over 2", more like 0.2mm and could see the V wear. Only used as semi pro for 10 yrs seeing gradual decline then abrupt last couple of years at 1 1/2hrs per day. The Chinese will not last 18 months to above state, if they do they are not used.

In many ways the L5, 11" and later 140 are much better machines than the replacement M300 which is less rigid. Main reason I went M300 was for the no faffing about screwcutting, just dial the pitch in something the Chinese haven't copied to date.

[Tony RayParticipant @tonyray65007]

Sounds like you know what you are doing so it's time to say goodbye to the L5. Do bear in mind that a Warco or any of the equivalents is not going to be a patch on it in terms of quality. Why not look for another L5? all of your existing tooling will fit, your taper turning attachment is worth selling on if you don't need it and will help to ease the cost of the replacement. I think you would find any of the non locking mandrel systems very frustrating after the L00. D1-3 or 4 is the more modern alternative.

[BowberParticipant @bowber]

I had another go at cleaning and adjusting everything, even took the gap out and made sure it was cleaned properly. result on a 50mm bar was 0.0035" over about 4" and that was back from the wear area so definitely time to say good bye to the old girl. (only have an imperial mic big enough)

I've been holding off doing some small model parts because of this and I've been thinking of a smaller lathe anyway as it fits in better with my future plans and will fit in my work area better so a smaller lathe will not be a problem. I also only had a screw on chucks for years before this lathe so I'm happy with that.

I also had a measure up of the various dimensions and was quite surprised how small the movement on the Harrison is, I'd had it as 36" BC but it's only 24" and the front edge of the tool post has about 115mm movement from centre out and about 470mm saddle travel with about 350mm being useful with a chuck in.

Anyone want any parts

Steve

[Phil PParticipant @philp]

Have sent you a PM re parts

Phil

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

Buy another L5. Keep all your tooling, and any useful spares. Sell the remainder for scrap.

[BowberParticipant @bowber]

PM answered Phil

Thaiguzzi, I'm taking this opportunity to downsize and re arrange my workshop, the Harrison has been good and got daily use when I was self employed but now it's hobby use only, I got rid of my big mill years ago and bought the smaller CNC and I've not regretted it yet.

Steve

[BowberParticipant @bowber]

Well my Warco WM280 arrived yesterday afternoon…… and I was busy sign writing a van that had to be finished so I had to leave it until I'd finished at nearly 7pm!
Very frustrating having it sat there tempting me away from working, anyway after my demonstration of self control me and a few others got it into the workshop (which is a complete mess as I'm changing everything around) assembled and cleaned, but not properly set up yet as it's not in it's final position.

First impressions are good, the finish is generally good and all the important bits look and feel nice.
Bits that aren't as good as a high quality, and high price, lathe are bits like the handles running on spindles that are slightly too long so they slide in and out a bit, and the friction dials rub slightly, I'm not bothered but some one who's a bit OCD might be.

I've not had chance to do any proper turning yet but a quick test showed a much better surface finish and it's way more accurate than my Harrison, I could also take a tiny cut cleanly that the Harrison just wouldn't have done.

Power wise I had it on the high speed range and lowest speed and took a 0.5mm cut on my test peice and it didn't show much speed drop and held steady once it had dropped, then turned quite happily and quietly at 1000+ rpm, My Harrison didn't get run at full speed as it was too noisy, perhaps an indication that the headstock bearings weren't good when I got it.

Over all I'm very pleased with the Warco but some serious work will soon tell me if it was the right decision.

Steve

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