Absolute beginner, lathe choice and materials question ?

[Gas_mantle.Participant @gas_mantle]

Hi all,

I'm a complete beginner but looking at buying myself a small lathe to try to get into model engineering.

I'm a Meccano enthusiast and do make my own components to supplement the range but now want to progress onto something a little more challenging (something like simple Stirling engines etc). I'm also interested in photography and astronomy so the ability to make components for tripods / mounts etc would be useful.

I'm leaning towards the Warco 180 plus a few extras bringing the total outlay to £1000, what do others think of the machine ?

Also, can people please recommend sites selling materials ?

Thanks for your help

Peter.

[Gas_mantle.Participant @gas_mantle]

[Roger Provins 2Participant @rogerprovins2]

The various sellers on eBay are as good as anywhere for small quantities.

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

If you are within reach of Sandown Park or Ally Pally, there are a couple of good M.E Exhibitions coming up shortly.

I find these are good places to Get small quantities of materials and look at kit..

Edited By V8Eng on 22/11/2014 21:38:44

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Hi Peter,

Given the timing, I'd strongly recommend a visit to the Model Engineer Exhibition as well. You could get a show deal, or at least a lot of food for thought and a chance to discuss ideas face to face.

Neil

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

For materials check the adverts on the right.but try lookig for local engineering works who will supply offcuts as postage an be a major factor.. I recently found a local trailer manufacturer who sells bits in th sizes they use.

If you can get to a show that helps put the postage saving toweards the entry fee, but getting there is a problem.

[EugeneParticipant @eugene]

I'm a complete novice so hesitate to give lathe advice, but for material supply I've found a small company named M-Machine to be friendly, helpful and efficient.

When learning how to turn parts I found using carbide insert tips a great help. We newcomers are often told that they don't work well in small lathes but if you use the CCGT type which are highly polished and have very sharp cutting edges they are fine. You'll no doubt bust a few, (they are delicate) but that's just part of the learning curve. I use CCGT 09T302NF25 from JB Cutting Tools, another good outfit to deal with.

Making really good High Speed Steel cutting tools isn't a knack I've found easy to acquire, so that's why I went the carbide route.

Eug

[Gas_mantle.Participant @gas_mantle]

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies.

Unfortunately it's going to be difficult for me to attend the upcoming model engineering exhibitions as they are in the south and I'm in the grim cold north. The Harrogate exhibition isn't far from me but that's not on till next year and I was hoping to buy a lathe in the next few weeks.

I've taken a look at some of the ads on this site for material suppliers and they seem reasonably priced. I guess even a scrap yard may even sell me bits of scrap metal to practice on till I'm ready to do any 'serious' work.

As for the machine, what do others think of the Warco WM180? There seems to be lots of machines at similar prices and specifications but they are all slightly different and it's difficult to know which is the best deal.

Thanks

Peter

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

I'm in a similar position to yourself.. in as much as thinking about it but no real engineering experience. The advice here was to go look at soem lathes. Chester machine tools isn't too far from me..probably about 2 and a bit hrs from you if you're in harrogate.

I was quite suprised to find that the smaller lathes were even more dinky-toy than i expected – not designed for a club hammer. Having said that clockmakng lathes are even smaller. I used to own a tiny woodturning lathe that ran from a dremel type tool and was suprisingly good for a naff-looking object although turning out 120 tiny wood bullustrades for a doll house hit the height of tedium.

Depending on what you already own I'm sure this is a hobby designed to suck you in – after the lathe and some metal we're gonna need some tooling, a way to sharpen it, Marking and measuring, polishing, cleaning and lube.. then it's soldering, pickling. painting, a compressor.. more tooling. (yeah, I know a lot can be done by hand – I'm just the devil's advocate )

[SpannaParticipant @spanna]

Not sure on the lathe, but in the past I have found Warco excellent on their customer service. A long time ago, but the good feeling sticks.

Learning to do engineering by reading books and forums is the most difficult thing I can think about. get it wrong and you can lose a finger or an eye. Who reads health and safety before they turn on their bright shiny green lathe. What's the importance of safety shoes, safety glasses, no book in the bookshop is their to nag you. Always remember, if you have an argument with your machines, you will always lose.

Join a local active club and have a look at what others are using and doing. They may even have a coach going to the exhibition.

When things go right(most of the time) creating little masterpieces in metal becomes a real joy and addictive

[Christopher Taylor 1Participant @christophertaylor1]

Hi Peter

My first lathe was a Warco WM180 which I purchased some years ago to make various small bushes to restore several small tools which I did quite satisfactorily. I did have an experienced engineer show me how to use it and found it so useful for all sorts of other work such as brass light fittings, brass rail hangers, those difficult to obtain non metric bolts – I have and maintain a couple of old cars and rebuilding a friends diesel boat generator to mention a few. I have now moved on to a Warco WM 250vf lathe as I think for the money and the type of use (hobby) they represent good value however, they are not perfect when compared to the more expensive machines and I did have to remake some parts for the WM180. For example the shaft that holds the gear wheels I found to be of a soft metal which soon distorted with the regular changing of ratios, and the tool post top nut with screw in shaft I had to weld together as they finally parted. I traded my WM 180 in against a new WM 250vf and dropped about £150 from the original purchase price which for 4 years use I thought was not bad. The only reason I up graded was to have a greater swing over the bed and to have the benefit of a power cross feed. You will of course, need many other small tools to use it which can add up when on a budget.

Hope this is useful

Christopher

[Ed DuffnerParticipant @edduffner79357]

Hi Peter,

I second the comments Christopher Taylor 1 offers for the 180. I've had one since the middle of September this year and enjoy using it. Although mine does have some quality issues I find it is very accurate.

I would recommend a quick change toolpost to go with it. I fitted one of the small QCTP's from Arc Eurotrade and it's a vast improvement in usability over the 4-way toolpost. This requires a new steel sleeve and part of the toolpost body to be bored.

I am also interested in photography and astronomy. Here are a couple of observations I've had about the 180 with regard to this:

– 1.25" filters are apparently 1.25" x 42 TPI (threads per inch). Looking at the thread cutting chart, the 180 does not appear to support 42tpi but there may be a gear cutting combination to allow this. I'd have to check using one of the online change-gear calculators. 2 inch filters have a thread pitch of 0.75mm which is catered for.

– Having 4 inch chucks I find the need to swap out chuck jaws whenever I would like to turn anything larger than 1.5". When I get around to making some astro or photo accessories I'd probably turn between centres, or make mandrels, so there are different ways of achieving the results.

I hope to upgrade later on when funds permit to have the work capacity of the bigger chucks and bed length. I'm relatively new to machining and I think the 180 is a good starting point.

Regards,
Ed.

[Gas_mantle.Participant @gas_mantle]

Hi all,

Many thanks for the replies, it looks like I'll opt for the Warco 180, as yet nobody seems to have any serious complaints about it.

I will need a few extras (mostly measuring equipment and a small bench grinder to sharpen tooling) so the cost is going to come to about £1000 and that seems reasonable to me.

No doubt as I get more skilled I'll end up buying additional equipment but I can do that as I need it, the £1000 will at least get me started so to speak

Peter

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Ed Duffner on 23/11/2014 16:38:41:

– 1.25" filters are apparently 1.25" x 42 TPI (threads per inch). Looking at the thread cutting chart, the 180 does not appear to support 42tpi but there may be a gear cutting combination to allow this. I'd have to check using one of the online change-gear calculators. 2 inch filters have a thread pitch of 0.75mm which is catered for.

42 tpi is near enough to 0.6 mm pitch for it to make no difference.

Russell

[Ed DuffnerParticipant @edduffner79357]

Thank you Russell

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 23/11/2014 19:10:28:

42 tpi is near enough to 0.6 mm pitch for it to make no difference.

.

Quite right, Russell, and [although I can't be 100% certain]: I'm pretty sure that the Standard is 0.6 mm pitch, and it's the 42 tpi that's the approximation.

See here, for example.

MichaelG.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I hope you have read the several other threads about buying lathes etc that have run in the last few months, even as recently as last week. The budgets may vary but allowing for that there is a lot of basic good advice in them that applies in all cases.

You made the good point about also needing a grinder. +1 for your intuition. Now don't spoil it by wasting money on a lot of other tools you don't need. You can get some used HSS lathe tools off ebay which may be slightly strange shapes but will still be nearer to shape than a barnd new square one. Whatever you do don't be wayliad by tempting sets of 'six/twelve carbide tools' or '200 drills' for that matter, even from 'reputable' suppliers. They are made from mouldy cheese.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Peter, I,d tend to stick to HSS tooling, for most work it will be quite adequate for the work you'll do to start with, learn to sharpen the tools, and hone them with either a oil stone(get a little pocket size one), or a diamond lap.

If you go the carbide way, you'll need either a diamond wheel(best) or a "green grit" wheel on your grinder, and a diamond lap to maintain the edge on the tool, unless you use indexable tips, and throw them when the edges are blunt.

Ian S C

[Gas_mantle.Participant @gas_mantle]

Many thanks for all the replies

I guess the next question is, does anyone have any links to simple projects for a beginner on a lathe ?

[Ed DuffnerParticipant @edduffner79357]

Peter,

Most importantly if you're not already aware, machine tool safety and eye protection in the workshop are a must. I currently use the cheaper safety over-glasses which tend to get scratched and fog very easily. Buy a good pair of safety goggles or glasses, or even better still, a face visor. Hot chips tend to be attracted to open-neck shirts! There are plenty of books, online videos and resources to read up on machine tool safety.

Cheers,
Ed.

PS. I just saw your last question come in. Here's a link to web site of a chap I used to work with at HP.

Steve's Workshop

Edited By Ed Duffner on 24/11/2014 14:43:01

[SpannaParticipant @spanna]

where in the country are you. you can have my old bench grinder if you collect. Darkest south east England and beyond

Alan

[BikepeteParticipant @bikepete]

"I'm in the grim cold north. The Harrogate exhibition isn't far from me"

For materials and tooling, consider visiting the autojumbles at Rufforth (just west of York, first Sat of each month) or Scorton (nr Catterick, third Sat of each month). Usually several sellers with aluminium, stainless steel, brass etc and no postage costs! Also loads of secondhand tools and cheap consumables (abrasives, workwear, cutters, fasteners etc). Good place to pick up some old HSS toolbits to practice some grinding. Plenty to look at even if you're not into motorbikes.

Scorton location details

Rufforth location details

Major machines (lathes, mills, drills etc) are sometimes on sale at these places too, but not sure I'd recommend it as a place for the beginner to buy unless you have a knowledgeable friend along.

Edited By Bikepete on 24/11/2014 15:04:44

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Plenty of advertisers in ME and MEW offer metals in convenient lengths and smaller sizes. Some of them do 'starter packs'.

If you want larger sizes, find a local steel stockholder and see what they can offer you by way of short ends. This morning I picked up 2 1/2 feet of 2" 230M07 (EN1a – mild steel) for £15 plus vat, enough to keep me going for a year or two.

Neil

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

For a model, Stuart Turner are producing a "new" model, it's the Progress OH(oscillating, horizontal), a little engine with a 1/2" bore(might be metric now). A series of these engines were available in the 1930s, specially designed for beginners.

I'v just done a little bit of work on one of the original ones, a vertical with a slide valve(hope they start making these ones too).

Ian S C

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