Loco Wheels locking up

Loco Wheels locking up

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  • #819962
    Speedy Builder5
    Participant
      @speedybuilder5

      Nice day for a run around the garden track.  All steamed up and ready to go, but the motion was locked up.  Thought it was just “hydraulicing”, but the drain cocks were open, so rocked the loco back and forth, and we set off, but the motion work was still “lumpy”. I inspected the setting of the “Return Crank” and that was aligned with the scribed mark on the crankpin.

      Decided to drop the fire and return to the shed to investigate. SPEEDY has piston valves and in my mind one of the piston valves had come loose on its spindle. On removing the endcaps, it was obvious that this wasn’t the problem.

      Now looking for an obvious blockage to the motion works, saw that the piston “Cross Head” was just hitting the piston rod screwed gland.  Such a simple fix, screw the gland back in! I could have done that at the track.  Its something I should add to my pre-run check list.

      Bob

      #819965
      Nigel Graham 2
      Participant
        @nigelgraham2

        Ah – look for the most awkward cause first! We’ve all done it.

        Anyway, I am pleased it was as simple as that.

        The chassis of the first loco my club built as a club project, a double-sized version of LBSC’s Juliet, refused to run properly on air. It would struggle half a turn then suddenly complete the revolution in a blind panic. It foxed everyone for months until a chance noticing of a tiny exhaust-side leak from a slightly over-deep cross-drilling, led indirectly to the discovery of the cause.

        Work to plug the hole, revealed that whoever had made the paper gasket had forgotten not only the studs, but also the exhaust steam, needs a hole to go through.

        #822047
        Speedy Builder5
        Participant
          @speedybuilder5

          Ah well, it turns out a bit more complex. I bought a SPEEDY 5″ chassis, wheels, rods and cylinders as an abandoned project. All credit to the builder, it was a superb example of model engineering.

          I continued the project making all valve linkages, boiler, carriage work etc etc.  Boiler certificated, I ran the model on the track for probably more than 40Km, until!

          I now find that the wheels have become un-bonded from the axles. I don’t know what was used to bond the wheels to axles and it is clear that 4 of the 6 wheels have befell this!

          So now I need to re-Quater the wheel/axles.  All stripped down and I have material to make a quartering jig, but I can’t find information of showing the correct angular displacement.  I know that it is 90degrees (or there abouts) so long as all axles are the same, but 90 degrees forward or backward?

          Looking on the RightHand wheel and the crank pin at 3 o’clock, (looking through the spokes of the RH wheel and seeing the back of the LH wheel) does the LH wheel crank pin sit at 6 o’clock or 12 o’clock.

          If you got it wrong, would it make a difference ?

          Nearly done, but should I pin the wheels afterwards ?

          Bob

          #822049
          Charles Lamont
          Participant
            @charleslamont71117

            It makes no difference (on a 2 cylinder loco anyway), but IIRC the convention is right hand leads.

            #822050
            JA
            Participant
              @ja

              I have got to the stage of machining the wheels and axles on my Speedy and given the fixing a lot of thought.

              1. Broach a 1/8″ key way in line with the intended crank pin position in the bore of each wheel.
              2. Make the crank pin drilling jig with a key way grove in line with the crank pin drilling hole.
              3. Drill and ream the crank pin holes keying the wheel and jig together. Making the crank pins can be done later.
              4. Turn the axle ends to give an interference fit of between 0.0000″ and 0.0003″.
              5. Machine the key ways in axle ends 90 degrees apart.
              6. Use Loctite 638 to glue everything together with the key in place.

              This solves the difficulties with quartering. I would be interested in comments.

              Bob, I hope I have not hi-jacked your topic. I guess it is too late to use a proper square key but you could use a Dutch key (a screw in a tap hole between the axle and wheel).

              JA

              #822071
              Speedy Builder5
              Participant
                @speedybuilder5

                Hi JA,  re the axle keyways, Assume one keyway is at 0 degrees, do you put the second at 90 or 270 degrees ?

                I have seen the term where the right hand wheel is 90 degrees leading – but do not understand this term, also in the M.A.P book on SPEEDY, page 10, it states that it doesn’t matter, but as I have already timed the valve events, Page 20 with a key in the “return crank”, surely the 90 or 270 degree position is important.

                Bob

                #822075
                Weary
                Participant
                  @weary

                  Hi Bob,

                  In response to  some of your points ->

                  So now I need to re-quarter the wheel/axles.  All stripped down and I have material to make a quartering jig, but I can’t find information of showing the correct angular displacement.  I know that it is 90degrees (or there abouts) so long as all axles are the same, but 90 degrees forward or backward?

                  Looking on the right-hand wheel and the crank pin at 3 o’clock, (looking through the spokes of the RH wheel and seeing the back of the LH wheel) does the LH wheel crank pin sit at 6 o’clock or 12 o’clock.

                  From this viewpoint that you outline above, i.e. viewing from the right side of the locomotive, the left-hand wheel crankpin will lie at 12 o’clock while the crankpin of the right wheel lies at 3 o’clock..

                  If you consider the wheels fixed on the axle and rotating as they would if the locomotive was running forward, the right-hand cranks would be ‘ahead’ of those on the left by 90 degrees.    That is to say 90 degrees in-front of, i.e. preceding, those on the left as the wheels rotated to allow forward travel.

                  Thus ‘right side leading: the conventional arrangement.

                   

                  If you got it wrong, would it make a difference ?

                  No – provided all wheels on each side set at same angle and same relative position in direction of rotation.

                  The locomotive would run with left side leading and crank-pins set at 89 degrees!  As an ideal you should aim for 90 degrees, any serious variation from this will affect smoothness of drive and exhaust draughting, and give you audible ‘uneven beats’.

                   

                  Nearly done, but should I pin the wheels afterwards ?

                  As the wheels have already come loose once that might suggest that your axle/wheel gapping is perhaps a little larger than the ideal (tho’ there can be other reasons for this state of affairs!).  Pinning once securely glued will ensure that the wheels will not move again.  End-milling a small hole along the axle to wheel interface carefully at relatively slow speed to keep local temperatures down and gluing-in an appropriate length of tightly-fitting round steel rod will do the job adequately.  If you prefer you can thread the hole and screw-in a small (self-made?) grub-screw which will be easier to remove and allow one to free the wheel should you ever wish to do-so.

                   

                  Regards & best of luck,

                  Phil

                  #822076
                  Weary
                  Participant
                    @weary

                    Hi ‘JA’,

                    Your proposed scheme of work looks ideal.

                    I would suggest making your crankpins whilst the wheels are off the axles (your point 3).

                    Reason being that it is far easier to use wheel crankpin holes as a gauge when wheels are ‘loose’.  Despite your best efforts there may be small variations in diameter of the crankpin hole – not that I doubt your skills in any way, but sometimes ….. !!!

                    You can fit the crankpins whenever you prefer, either before or after quartering the wheels.

                     

                    Your proposed interference fit between axles and wheels (your point 4) means that you will have to work very fast and with confidence when using 638 as it will ‘grab’ very quickly with interference fits – at least in my experience it does.  A clearance, rather than an interference will allow you more time to work with glues.

                     

                    Regards & best of luck,

                    Phil

                     

                     

                    #822095
                    Speedy Builder5
                    Participant
                      @speedybuilder5

                      Excellent, thank you Phil. I have a pot of 648 on the shelf which has an extended initial cure time and is recommended for shaft/wheel applications.

                      Bob

                      #822159
                      JA
                      Participant
                        @ja

                        Phil

                        Thanks for the warning about 638. I have and am doing trial machining and assemblies, not using the actual components, on this. I have yet to hit any real problems but broaching of a key way is next.

                        I believe 648 is preferred to 638 but it appears to be available in large “containers”.

                        JA

                        #822230
                        duncan webster 1
                        Participant
                          @duncanwebster1

                          This is how the big boys did it
                          <p style=”text-align: left;”>http://ibls.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Quartering</p>
                          Holes for crankpins machined after the wheels were pressed on. I’d forget keyway, just use loctite. If you must, drill and fit a roll pin after you know it’s all OK

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