Help Please

This topic has 19 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 31 January 2011 at 09:38 by AES.

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29 January 2011 at 14:55 #63247
AES
Participant
@aes
Re: Headstock Dividing Attachement in “The Mini-Lathe” by David Fenner

Hullo,

I’ve just started to make the above fitting, working from the above book. I now have a couple of Q’s on which I’d appreciate some help. Has anyone got this book (or even better) has anyone built the Headstock Dividing Attachment to fit a Chinese Mini-Lathe (mine’s a “Real Bull” make, but it’s actually very similar to the Sieg)?

Q1: On Page 58, Fig. 5.7, is the semi-circular cutout shown on the lower (i.e. shorter) edge of the Backplate actually a full semi-circle? I can’t find any dimensions in the Fig. or in the text to show a) where exactly this cut out should be positioned, nor what the radius should be. Am I being daft and missing something, or doesn’t it matter all that much (e.g. “cut to suit the gears on your own lathe)?

Q2: Similarly, on Page 59, Fig. 5.8, I can’t find any dimensions in the Fig. or in the text for the dimensions of the length and position of the sloping portion on the lower edge of the Swing Plate, heights only. Nor can I find any detail for the radius of the half circle at the RH end of the plate (the Fig. in my copy of the book shows the symbol “R” with an arrow against that feature, but no dimension). Again I’m most probably missing something but any steers would be appreciated.

For those that don’t know it, Mr. Fenner’s book was published by Special Interest Model Books Ltd in 2008. I’m not sure if this is part of the “ME & MEW empire” or not.

Thanks in anticipation

Krgds

AES

Edited By AES on 29/01/2011 14:57:13
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29 January 2011 at 14:55 #5384
AES
Participant
@aes
Headstock Dividing Attachment in “The Mini.Lathe” by David Fenner
29 January 2011 at 18:21 #63259
wheeltapper
Participant
@wheeltapper
I haven’t built the one you refer to but this is my dividing setup on a Chester Comet (c4 clone)

its an expanding mandrel and a bracket mounted on existing bolts.

with a change wheel.

it might give you some ideas,

Roy

Edited By wheeltapper on 29/01/2011 18:22:44
29 January 2011 at 18:34 #63262
KWIL
Participant
@kwil
The “original” Mini Lathe Dividing Head was published in MEW 153 August 2009. Contact David Fenner via The Editor?
29 January 2011 at 21:54 #63267
AES
Participant
@aes
A very good site this, thanks for your prompt help Gents.

Another member has also very kindly sent me a pm in which he explains (very kindly) that I have not read far enough – I wanted to get on with the “labouring” work of cutting out the 3mm MS plate (with a hacksaw) before getting on to the n”intellectual” maching work tomorrow.

Although he didn’t say it in so many words, this was very much a case of “RTFM – Read The Flaming (or something!) Manual.

Krgds and thanks again

AES
30 January 2011 at 01:41 #63270
ady
Participant
@ady
The best thing to aim towards IMO is a worm drive with a division plate that can index the change wheel on the back of the mandrel.

This allows you to index ALL your gears, no matter which one is on the back of your mandrel…and therefore greatly increases the scope of indexing possible with a single lathe widget.

Kinda like this, but can be vertical or horizontal, and the worm engages with the cog on the back of the mandrel.

Westburys book on Lathe accessories explains the principle
30 January 2011 at 09:27 #63273
AES
Participant
@aes
Thanks ady. I’ve seen that book listed before and will probably buy it some day.

For now, being VERY raw in this stuff I wanted to try a “graduated approach” and start off with something simple – I need to divide into steps for a particular job so thought I should make something simple first, so I can do that job. Mr. Fenner’s device will do what I need it to at the moment so I thought I’d start there

So far I haven’t tried any gear cutting, so I’d have to buy the worm and gear, then there’s the body of the device (a casting no doubt, also to be bought and machined, another gap in my experience to date). And I think most of all that I find all this stuff SO fascinating that I’ll end up using what little time I have just making tools and gadgets rather than getting something “useful” made.

But I appreciate your thoughts anyway, thanks.

Krgds

AES
30 January 2011 at 09:58 #63276
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
For really basic indexing, the jaws of the chuck, and a spacer between that and the bed, gives you three or four, and that can besix or eight, handy if you have a filing rest, its often quicker to make one or two hexegon heads on bolts with a file, than set up the mill, and rotary table. ian S C
30 January 2011 at 10:32 #63278
ady
Participant
@ady
So far I haven’t tried any gear cutting, so I’d have to buy the worm
and gear, then there’s the body of the device (a casting no doubt, also
to be bought and machined, another gap in my experience to date). And I
think most of all that I find all this stuff SO fascinating that I’ll
end up using what little time I have just making tools and gadgets
rather than getting something “useful” made.

Don’t be dissuaded by thinking you need to make things from castings, you can use the metal solid and carve it out, and making tooling parts means you can customise what you make, creating bespoke gear.

I’m only a hacker at the moment, not unlike yourself, but the more you hack the better you get and the faster you progress, it’s a real suck-it-and-see hobby.

I’ve put up a couple of piccies of a work-in-progress simple milling spindle made from a big chunk of stainless, some solid bar and four one dollar a pop ebay bearings.

(Two each end to reduce cheap bearing errors)

It does help if you’re a bit obsessed because you can do it when you’re knackered after work.

If you need a tool, think about making it because you learn faster so your skills(and fears) for the serious stuff, like making model engines, are tempered with an increasing level of ability and knowledge.

You’ve got to be a bit of a craftsman to make a model engine, whereas a hacker can make useful bits of tooling.
30 January 2011 at 11:18 #63281
ady
Participant
@ady
Probbly the most useful tip I can give you as one newbie to another is wound management…lol

We’ve been blessed with a material our forefathers never had…superglue, and you can buy around ten tubes for a quid at those discount poundland type places.

Now superglue isn’t just good for securing nuts on threads, it’s fantastic at bonding skin which is handy when it’s leaking.

A&E departments in hospitals sometimes use it because it creates a watertight seal over a wound.

I’ve found that once you’ve quietened the initial flood and cleaned things up, if you place a small piece of kitchen tissue over the stabilised wound, then carefully apply superglue on top and around the affected area, you create a hard scab which is watertight, and then you can trim the hardened edges with nail clippers and get back to work.

You can literally step into a hot shower five minutes after knocking a chunk out of a knuckle once you get the right technique.
30 January 2011 at 12:24 #63288
David Clark 13
Participant
@davidclark13
Hi There

I thought super glue was carcinogenic?

regards david
30 January 2011 at 13:19 #63290
dcosta
Participant
@dcosta
Hello David and all.

In true, some purpose made form of cyanoacrylate (Super Glue, Krazy Glue, etc.), has been used in veterinary for bonding tissue.
The most common form (the one wee have access to) is generally considered to be irritant to eyes, nose and throat.

Please read more information in: cyanoacrylate_WIKIPEDIA

Best regards

Dias Costa
30 January 2011 at 13:22 #63291
ady
Participant
@ady
Probably is if you eat it or inject it directly into your bloodstream.

No doubt they smothered some poor rodent daily in superglue for 18 months to “prove” its carcinogenic properties…

As a temp wound fix on a minor cut which protects it for a day or two though, it’s darned handy gear.

I’m actually more nervous about the amount of metal dust my lathing generates, my lungs aint exactly top notch after 30 plus years of drinking and smoking.

Aluminium in particular seems to generate an amazing amount of floating metal dust.

As far as superglue is concerned, well we’re all adults and we makes our choices, a small blob or two on a knuckle once or twice a month doesn’t really fill me with any fear and trepidation, particularly since my hands now tend to be filthy with oil and lathe muck on an almost daily basis.
30 January 2011 at 13:24 #63292
AES
Participant
@aes
Thanks for the extra tips ady. The “problem” that I see with making tools is that when time in the shop is limited (for me it’s not just a case or being knackered after work, but so often I’m out of the country, so I’m completely away from the shop). That leads to me being a bit loath to start too much “making tools to make tools to make tools to make stuff”. And like machining castings and gear cutting, I also have no mill and haven’t yet tried milling on the lathe. “One fine-wet day” as my Dad always used to say.

Re “super glue”, it’s probably urban myth but the story goes that it was first used by the US Army in Vietnam to “temporarily glue up” bad battle wounds to give him a chance before being casevac’d to hospital (though I must say I don’t remember ever seeing Hawkeye & Co using it or removing it in MASH!). But as ady says, sometimes it takes a bit of effort but you can get it of the skin with warm water, soap, and a bit of “wiggling” (cyano peel strength is pretty low). IF there’s any truth in that I would have thought it’s unlikely to be carcinogenic.

Re the “10 tubes for a quid” stuff, as a long-time aeromodeller I’m pretty familiar with cyano and like so many other things, you get what you pay for. I’m sure that any of the stuff will glue skin quite successfully (and I’ve never tried it for thread locking, I never even thought of it for that and bought Loctite), but in a number of critical aeromodelling applications, depending on the materials to be joined, there really are differences, and not just in the viscosity of the stuff either.

Re carcinogenic David, as above I’ve never heard that one before. Where did you hear/read that please? As above I’ve been using various types for many years now and apart from the rather strong fumes from some of the cayanos being rather unpleasant in the nose for a short while (you can even see some “smoking” as a joint cures on some of the products, especially if using accelerator) as far as I know I’ve not suffered any permanent damage – damage – damag – dama. – dam. – da. – (grin)!

P.S. David. Did you receive a whole pile of E-mails from me last week please?

Krgds and again thanks to all for all the comments; sorry for ending up OT.

But while I’m about it (well off topic now), from time to time I’ve seen references to Victor Meldreth (I think) on this site. I’ve looked in all sorts of sources and book lists for any name like that connected with engineering generally, and/or with modelling in particular and found nothing. So who is he please?

AES
30 January 2011 at 14:25 #63296
Richard Marks
Participant
@richardmarks80868
fao AES

sorry to be a pain but actually MASH was based around the Korea conflict, superglue is brilliant for broken nails, you know the one that breaks just on the edge of the pain barrier and you catch it on everything,just cut it back a bit with sharp sidecutters and apply a small amount of glue to form a blob over the top, the medics do use a form of superglue that eventually dissolves in the body but i dont think its the same as the stuff we use, just had some work done to my shoulder so i shall be inspecting this site for the next four weeks aka Victor M just to keep you on your toes.

Dick
30 January 2011 at 14:52 #63297
Terryd
Participant
@terryd72465
Hi AES,

Victor Meldrew had nothing to do with engineering or modelling as far as I know. He was a character in a British sitcom called ‘One Foot In The Grave’. He was a cantankerous, bad tempered old character who complained and moaned about everything. Including neighbours, friends, local kids, traffic jams, local government, Health and Safety Executive (and probably about abusing rodents with super-glue ), government , taxes etc etc etc.

He used to get himself into all sorts of scrapes and problems much to the disgust of his long suffering wife. His catch phrase was “I don’t believe it” with emphasis on the ‘don’t’. Sorry to be OT but AES did ask. See here for more info.

A quote from the Wikipedia entry says:

“The series was so successful that in the UK the term a Victor Meldrew has become shorthand for a bitter and complaining elderly man. Wilson (actor) himself once said in an interview that he was a “normal man in a world full of idiots”. Victor is a tragic comedy character, who becomes embroiled in complex misunderstandings, the victim of bureaucratic vanity and, at times, sheer bad luck.”

best regards

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 30/01/2011 14:58:30
30 January 2011 at 15:10 #63298
blowlamp
Participant
@blowlamp
+1 for Super Glue. It’s great for split finger nails when the fracture goes down to that bit that really hurts and you keep catching it on clothes and stuff.

Martin.

Edited By blowlamp on 30/01/2011 15:10:21

Edited By blowlamp on 30/01/2011 15:10:51
30 January 2011 at 15:23 #63300
AES
Participant
@aes
Dick, thanks, you’re right of course, MASH was about the Korean War, that’s why it was Bell 47s and not Hueys and why, IF the aprocryphal story about cyano & Vietnam is true, that’s why Hawkeye didn’t ever mention it.

And Terry, thanks for the steer on Victor Meldreth. It never ocurred to me that we weren’t talking about modelling (grin) so I didn’t think to look for him on Wikipedia (he didn’t come up on Google when I looked). Anyway, you can put me down as a confirmed VM fan (according to SWMBO, make that a definite understudy).

Cheers to all

AES

Oh, and ady, thanks for your pix of the milling spindle, food for thought.
30 January 2011 at 15:32 #63301
Gordon W
Participant
@gordonw
Well OT with superglue now, never mind, my grandson had his ear pulled off playing rugby, silly boy, it was glued back on, very successful. Doc. said it was superglue, but didn’t have time for details. Great for broken nails, use a backing patch and can be filed to shape as required, can even play guitar after. Well I can’t. Back to dividing – I just use a gear mounted on expanding mandrel, with a screw with a point on to engage in a tooth space, mounted in a bracket screwed to the end cover of lathe. Works well for the sort of stuff I do.
31 January 2011 at 09:38 #63329
AES
Participant
@aes
Thanks Gordon,

The dividing device you describe is pretty much what I’m trying to make (as described in Mr. Fenner’s book).

For Maurice:

Thanks for the input. I have replied to you with a pm.

Krgds

AES
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