Domestic Chemistry

Domestic Chemistry

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  • #594284
    Michael Gilligan
    Participant
      @michaelgilligan61133

      I had left our oven for a few weeks without cleaning,, so I set about it this morning. sad

      We use Olive Oil for roast vegetables, and unfortunately its splashes bake hard on the [enamel] panels of the oven.

      After several hours of pretty fruitless hard-labour, I decided to search for advice

      Google found several recommendations for the use of a paste made from Baking Soda and Vinegar … So I tried that, and it works amazingly well !!

      So my question is: Can someone please explain the chemistry ?

      MichaelG.

      #28672
      Michael Gilligan
      Participant
        @michaelgilligan61133
        #594285
        duncan webster 1
        Participant
          @duncanwebster1

          No, but I have 2 approaches to cleaning ovens

          1. don't bother, the food doesn't actually touch it
          2. buy a pyrolytic oven, the it cleans itself.

          I haven't got enough years eft to waste them cleaning ovens!

          #594288
          Thor 🇳🇴
          Participant
            @thor

            You get carbon dioxide gas, water and sodium acetate, we used to put it in a bottle to create a volcano, or to unclog a drain.

            Thor

            #594290
            SillyOldDuffer
            Moderator
              @sillyoldduffer
              Posted by Michael Gilligan on 13/04/2022 18:26:28:

              I had left our oven for a few weeks without cleaning,, so I set about it this morning. sad

              We use Olive Oil for roast vegetables, and unfortunately its splashes bake hard on the [enamel] panels of the oven.

              After several hours of pretty fruitless hard-labour, I decided to search for advice

              Google found several recommendations for the use of a paste made from Baking Soda and Vinegar … So I tried that, and it works amazingly well !!

              So my question is: Can someone please explain the chemistry ?

              MichaelG.

              As much physics as Chemistry I think! Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) is abrasive, and Acetic Acid attacks Grease, so rubbing the combination into the muck will break up the surface. The acid also reacts with the Bicarbonate to produce bubbles of Carbon Dioxide, many of which will be inside the cracks, crevices and pores of the grease. Although the bubbles are tiny, the pressure exerted as they emerge is enormous. Very difficult to stop a chemical reaction with pressure, as this ex-gun barrel shows!

              Dave

              #594291
              Robert Atkinson 2
              Participant
                @robertatkinson2

                Mixing vinegar and bicarbonate of soda while visually impressive does not make a good cleaner. Try them on their own next time. Mixing them basically makes water and CO2 with possibly a tiny amount of sodium nitrate (lye) but it's insignificant.
                At least one commercial oven cleaner is mainly bicarbonate of soda paste. It works well

                Robert G8RPI.

                #594292
                pgk pgk
                Participant
                  @pgkpgk17461

                  I'll admit I see no logic to mixing the two together. If it worked for you then fine.

                  When I needed to clean my oven I found reference to using just baking soda and set too with a will..and ended up with a god-awful mess of caked baking soda on the oven surfaces that took ages to clean off – particularly out of the creases and around the seals. Since then I've just trained myself to wipe the oven out after any usage with eco washing up liquid solution.

                  pgk

                  #594293
                  Michael Gilligan
                  Participant
                    @michaelgilligan61133
                    Posted by Thor 🇳🇴 on 13/04/2022 18:53:59:

                    You get carbon dioxide gas, water and sodium acetate, […]

                    .

                    Thanks for that, Thor yes

                    So … does that cocktail react in any peculiar way with Olive Oil ‘lacquer’ ?

                    MichaelG.

                    #594296
                    Michael Gilligan
                    Participant
                      @michaelgilligan61133

                      Just for clarity … Messy as it is: the process is orders-of-magnitude more effective than anything else I tried [and much safer to use than the dreaded Mr Muscle].

                      MichaelG.

                      #594298
                      Anonymous
                        Posted by Robert Atkinson 2 on 13/04/2022 19:00:44:

                        Mixing them basically makes water and CO2 with possibly a tiny amount of sodium nitrate (lye) but it's insignificant.

                        … and here's me believing for years that lye is sodium hydroxide.

                        #594299
                        Thor 🇳🇴
                        Participant
                          @thor

                          Hi Michael,

                          Using baking soda alone to scrub your oven will clean it as it is abrasive, as Dave says the carbon dioxide gas made when mixed with vinegar helps mix and agitate to move dirt particles. Better explanations:

                          ***Link***

                          ***Link***

                          Thor

                          #594305
                          Ady1
                          Participant
                            @ady1

                            cif can be pretty impressive against baked grease

                            #594306
                            Michael Gilligan
                            Participant
                              @michaelgilligan61133

                              Thanks to Dave and Thor … I am reminded of a previous thread on this forum, about micro-bubbles generated in canine toothpaste.

                              I am happy to believe that the underlying process is generally similar.

                              MichaelG.

                              .

                              Ref. https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=144313&p=1

                              Edited By Michael Gilligan on 13/04/2022 19:36:14

                              #594323
                              Georgineer
                              Participant
                                @georgineer
                                Posted by Peter Greene 🇨🇦 on 13/04/2022 19:16:48:

                                Posted by Robert Atkinson 2 on 13/04/2022 19:00:44:

                                Mixing them basically makes water and CO2 with possibly a tiny amount of sodium nitrate (lye) but it's insignificant.

                                … and here's me believing for years that lye is sodium hydroxide.

                                I'd like to learn how to make sodium nitrate from acetic acid.

                                George

                                #594329
                                bernard towers
                                Participant
                                  @bernardtowers37738

                                  Lakeland Ovenmate for me

                                  #594330
                                  Clive Hartland
                                  Participant
                                    @clivehartland94829

                                    I have seen dish washer tabs rubbed onto the surfaces clean the glass doors.

                                    #594335
                                    Robin Graham
                                    Participant
                                      @robingraham42208
                                      Posted by Michael Gilligan on 13/04/2022 19:33:38:

                                      Thanks to Dave and Thor … I am reminded of a previous thread on this forum, about micro-bubbles generated in canine toothpaste.

                                      I am happy to believe that the underlying process is generally similar.

                                      MichaelG.

                                      .

                                      Ref. **LINK**

                                      Edited By Michael Gilligan on 13/04/2022 19:36:14

                                      I think you're right to be happy in that belief Michael. I use a 15% solution of sodium hydroxide with a bit of surfactant myself. It works well, but it's messy and even at that concentration it takes several hours for the chemistry to work. I shall certainly try the vinegar/bicarb method!

                                      On the chemistry front I'm pretty skeptical about claims that vinegar 'attacks' grease in a chemical way. It's certainly true that grease can be broken down by dilute acid (acid hydrolysis of esters), but I doubt that the reaction is significant in cleaning an oven. Possibly it has some mild solvent action?

                                      On canine tooth cleaning – I don't think I reported back on my plan to use the ultrasonic toothbrush for rust removal. Pure funk I'm afraid. The risk of domestic disharmony if it went wrong was too great. I expect it would work though. Might be good for cleaning ovens (slowly) as well.

                                      Robin

                                      Edited By Robin Graham on 14/04/2022 01:03:16

                                      #594337
                                      AdrianR
                                      Participant
                                        @adrianr18614

                                        Try Borax Substitute (sodium sesquicarbonate), mix it to a paste with water, rub it in and leave a while. Not as good as Sodium Hydroxide, but a lot safer.

                                        I had a problem with a sticky yellow stain from cooking oil on my plastic mixer bowl, it was removed in minutes. It also removes the sticky yellow that builds up around the cooker.

                                        #594338
                                        Anthony Kendall
                                        Participant
                                          @anthonykendall53479
                                          Posted by duncan webster on 13/04/2022 18:33:46:

                                          No, but I have 2 approaches to cleaning ovens

                                          1. don't bother, the food doesn't actually touch it
                                          2. buy a pyrolytic oven, the it cleans itself.

                                          I haven't got enough years eft to waste them cleaning ovens!

                                          Well said Duncan – with you all the way. There are other similar things e.g. cutting lawns, cleaning cars, the possibilities are endless!

                                          #594341
                                          martin perman 1
                                          Participant
                                            @martinperman1

                                            There is one other method, my wife gets a guy in to clean the oven, I do my best to keep the glass top clean.

                                            Martin P

                                            #594346
                                            SillyOldDuffer
                                            Moderator
                                              @sillyoldduffer
                                              Posted by Robin Graham on 14/04/2022 01:01:26:

                                              Posted by Michael Gilligan on 13/04/2022 19:33:38:

                                              Thanks to Dave and Thor … I am reminded of a previous thread on this forum, about micro-bubbles generated in canine toothpaste.

                                              I am happy to believe that the underlying process is generally similar.

                                              MichaelG.

                                              .

                                              Ref. **LINK**

                                              Edited By Michael Gilligan on 13/04/2022 19:36:14

                                              On the chemistry front I'm pretty skeptical about claims that vinegar 'attacks' grease in a chemical way. It's certainly true that grease can be broken down by dilute acid (acid hydrolysis of esters), but I doubt that the reaction is significant in cleaning an oven. Possibly it has some mild solvent action?

                                              That's what I was hinting at when I said the answer was as much to do with physics as chemistry. Dilute Acetic Acid isn't like Caustic Soda, which attacks fats aggressively; Vinegar only has a mild dissolving effect. Simply splashing vinegar on a dirty oven won't get it clean. It's important that the Bicarbonate / Acid mix be a paste, in which the Bicarbonate and Acid are slowly reacting to produce micro-bubbles, AND there are plenty of sharp Bicarbonate crystals to act as an Abrasive, AND there's enough fluid to penetrate tiny cracks and crevices, AND the paste is rubbed in enthusiastically by the operator. Works in much the same way as soapy Brillo-pad, except the Brillo pad abrades with steel-wool, soap breaks up the fat and there are no micro-bubbles.

                                              Cleaning an oven with a solution of Sodium Acetate made by carefully neutralising Sodium Bicarbonate with Vinegar is a waste of time. It's not reactive or abrasive and there are no micro-bubbles.

                                              Caustic Soda paste, made with water, can be splashed on and left. The alkali breaks fats up, so the operator can leave the oven to soak and wash the whole lot off with water a few hours later. Sodium Bicarbonate would do the same but take a lot longer.

                                              Anyone tried Isopropyl alcohol? Apart from the cost, fumes, and fire hazard I think it might work well. Ditto petrol…

                                              devil

                                              Dave

                                              #594366
                                              Dave Halford
                                              Participant
                                                @davehalford22513

                                                Prevention is better than a cure.

                                                We roast tomatoes in a casserole dish with the lid on, that way you get more juice to pour on your plate where it belongs.

                                                Ps

                                                As the forum Subject Police have not yet attended this party and in the interests of balance.

                                                What's this got to do with Model Engineering?????

                                                #594376
                                                BC Prof
                                                Participant
                                                  @bcprof

                                                  it's Ideal to[pic for the tea room .

                                                  Brian

                                                  #594377
                                                  larry phelan 1
                                                  Participant
                                                    @larryphelan1

                                                    Good man Duncan !, could not have put it better myself !!

                                                    My cooking is so bad that it would make no difference anyway, so why bother.cheeky

                                                    #594381
                                                    Michael Gilligan
                                                    Participant
                                                      @michaelgilligan61133
                                                      Posted by Dave Halford on 14/04/2022 11:52:12:

                                                      Prevention is better than a cure.

                                                      We roast tomatoes in a casserole dish with the lid on, that way you get more juice to pour on your plate where it belongs.

                                                      Ps

                                                      As the forum Subject Police have not yet attended this party and in the interests of balance.

                                                      What's this got to do with Model Engineering?????

                                                      .

                                                      Given the digressions … bugger all

                                                      The actual question was to do with Chemistry and was, I believe, put in an appropriate topic.

                                                      MichaelG.

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