Motor rotation

Motor rotation

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  • #25396
    sean logie
    Participant
      @seanlogie69385
      #309060
      sean logie
      Participant
        @seanlogie69385

        Hi, just got the motor for centec 2 , the motor is turning the wrong way for the mill . I’ve tried changing over the capacitor wires but motor still turns the wrong way . Motor is a 1hp advantage lite 11, single phase . Heres how its wired just now https://flic.kr/p/WyAwZ3.
        Is there anything else I can try .

        Edited By sean logie on 27/07/2017 19:35:27

        #309061
        John Haine
        Participant
          @johnhaine32865

          You need to swap over the ends of the motor winding to which the capacitor is connected. Swapping the capacitor wires will do nothing.

          #309087
          not done it yet
          Participant
            @notdoneityet

            IF you might get a vertical head sometime, you will need a change-over switch as the motor needs to turn the other way for both the Mkll and lll heads (have to think about the Mkl).

            #309094
            Ady1
            Participant
              @ady1

              wiring1.jpg

              #309102
              sean logie
              Participant
                @seanlogie69385

                Thanks guys ,I changed the blue wire of the capacitor to the opposite side of the red wire and hey presto motor now turns in the direction I need.

                Sean

                Edited By sean logie on 28/07/2017 07:07:07

                #309217
                sean logie
                Participant
                  @seanlogie69385

                  The motor is mounted onto the mill now ,so I gave it a wee test run cutting some delrin to start with for about 10-15 min and I noticed the motor started to get warm then hot untill I could barely put my hand on it . Could it be possible seeing as I changed the direction the motor turns this is the cause of the motor getting very hot or is it just goosed .

                  Sean

                  #309221
                  Keith Long
                  Participant
                    @keithlong89920

                    Sean – I assume that your motor was a capacitor start machine. I can't tell from your photo what the various wires connect to in your motor, but it's possible that you have got it connected so that the start winding is permanently energised and not being disconnected by the centrifugal switch (or other starting cut out). I suggest you trace ALL the wires out to see where they are going/coming from. Having the start winding permanently connected will result in overheating and burning the winding out.

                    What you need to do from your original set up is to reverse the polarity of the start winding relative to what it was when you first got it.

                    I suggest you get hold of the Workshop Practice Series Books no.s 16 and 24 by Jim Cox – Electric Motors and Electric Motors in the Workshop, they will explain just about everything you will need to know.

                    #309227
                    John Haine
                    Participant
                      @johnhaine32865
                      Posted by sean logie on 28/07/2017 06:56:40:

                      Thanks guys ,I changed the blue wire of the capacitor to the opposite side of the red wire and hey presto motor now turns in the direction I need.

                      Sean

                      Edited By sean logie on 28/07/2017 07:07:07

                      The opposite side of which red wire? There are 4 on your photo! As Keith says, you need to trace all the wires.

                      When you switch on the motor and it runs, and then you switch it off, do you hear a click as it runs down? If so that is the starter centrifugal switch. If you don't hear it, then the motor may be a "capacitor start and run". Whichever type, if you swap over the connections of the winding to which one end of the capacitor is connected (so the capacitor is in series with the winding) the motor will reverse correctly.

                      #309232
                      Ian P
                      Participant
                        @ianp

                        You say its a single phase motor but since the windings are labelled U, V and W it looks suspiciously like most three phase motors do.

                        As is happens my Austrian mill was manufactured and supplied as standard with a three phase motor bodged to run on single phase with a capacitor. The mill was known to be hard to start when in the high geared spindle speed because the motor (wired in that way) did not produce its full power. I fitted a VFD and would have to have my arm twisted to go back to single phase.

                        Ian P

                        #309243
                        sean logie
                        Participant
                          @seanlogie69385
                          Posted by John Haine on 28/07/2017 19:36:10:

                          Posted by sean logie on 28/07/2017 06:56:40:

                          Thanks guys ,I changed the blue wire of the capacitor to the opposite side of the red wire and hey presto motor now turns in the direction I need.

                          Sean

                          Edited By sean logie on 28/07/2017 07:07:07

                          The opposite side of which red wire? There are 4 on your photo! As Keith says, you need to trace all the wires.

                          When you switch on the motor and it runs, and then you switch it off, do you hear a click as it runs down? If so that is the starter centrifugal switch. If you don't hear it, then the motor may be a "capacitor start and run". Whichever type, if you swap over the connections of the winding to which one end of the capacitor is connected (so the capacitor is in series with the winding) the motor will reverse correctly.

                          The red and blue at the top of the picture were the the one's I swap first and then I changed the blue wire to the opposite end (the red and blue wires being the capacitor) The power feed cables at the bottom sticking through the casing were wired from a drawing the guy I bought the motor from sent with the motor . Wiring is not my my best subject ,,being colour blind doesn't help either .

                           

                          Sean 

                          Edited By sean logie on 28/07/2017 20:37:02

                          #309250
                          Ian P
                          Participant
                            @ianp

                            Sean

                            As you say colour blindness is a hindrance with electrical wiring but that combined with your admitted lack of wiring expertise is a recipe for a (minor) disaster.

                            I am fairly convinced you have a three phase motor and it is possible to run it of a single phase supply. A quick Google search shows many hits of wiring diagrams etc, most also mention that the motor will only produce about two thirds the power of its rating plate specification.

                            If you are unsure about which wire goes where, it would be best to consult the original supplier or competent electrician as it may save you damaging the motor, (it does not take too long to compromise the insulation)

                            Ian P

                            #309260
                            Brian Sweeting 2
                            Participant
                              @briansweeting2

                              Wiring schemes here…

                               

                              **LINK**

                              #309271
                              duncan webster 1
                              Participant
                                @duncanwebster1

                                As there are 6 wires disappearing into the motor, I'm with Ian, you have a 3 phase motor. Can you post a photo of the motor plate?

                                #309272
                                sean logie
                                Participant
                                  @seanlogie69385

                                  I’ve added a photo of the nameplate and it is a 3 phase .

                                  Sean

                                  #309288
                                  JasonB
                                  Moderator
                                    @jasonb

                                    #309289
                                    sean logie
                                    Participant
                                      @seanlogie69385

                                      Thanks Jason , need to figure out inserting photos to a thread 😉

                                      Sean

                                      #309293
                                      Martin Connelly
                                      Participant
                                        @martinconnelly55370

                                        Do what Ian P did. Get a VFD and run your motor as it should be used with a 3 phase supply. This will give you lots of advantages over a single phase motor. There are lots of threads covering this.

                                        Martin C

                                        #309297
                                        sean logie
                                        Participant
                                          @seanlogie69385

                                          Hmmmm…. not really wanting to stump up for a vfd. I’ve set myself a hard budget for getting this mill up and running . Not even sure if I plan in keep it that long .

                                          Sean

                                          #309356
                                          Brian Sweeting 2
                                          Participant
                                            @briansweeting2

                                            Agreed, it is a three phase motor, it can be run on 230v single phase but will probably overheat, as you have found.

                                            The single phase method is called the Steinmetz method. Our friend Google will find quite a few useful results.

                                            #309363
                                            Martin Cargill
                                            Participant
                                              @martincargill50290

                                              Sean.

                                              There is a second hand inverter on ebay just now that will run your motor. Price is £55 (buy it now price). This will give you a whole range of simple drive options including reversing and variable speed etc. Its got to be easier fitting/running this than any of the other options for trying to run a 3 phase motor from a single phase supply.

                                              Martin

                                              #309374
                                              V8Eng
                                              Participant
                                                @v8eng

                                                I notice that Sean says that he has a 1 hp motor, but isn't that only a half horsepower motor? It reads 0.37KW on the nameplate.

                                                Edited By V8Eng on 29/07/2017 21:02:34

                                                #309527
                                                sean logie
                                                Participant
                                                  @seanlogie69385
                                                  Posted by Martin Cargill on 29/07/2017 18:55:14:

                                                  Sean.

                                                  There is a second hand inverter on ebay just now that will run your motor. Price is £55 (buy it now price). This will give you a whole range of simple drive options including reversing and variable speed etc. Its got to be easier fitting/running this than any of the other options for trying to run a 3 phase motor from a single phase supply.

                                                  Martin

                                                  Hi Martin, been away for the weekend,do you have a link for the inverter .

                                                  Thanks

                                                  Sean

                                                  #309529
                                                  Steve Pavey
                                                  Participant
                                                    @stevepavey65865

                                                    There are loads on eBay. If you just search for 'inverter' you'll probably get swamped by listings for new ones from China. If you search for specific manufacturers you will turn up more likely possibilities, eg

                                                    **LINK**

                                                    **LINK**

                                                    You just need to do a bit of research on the various manufacturers names and models. Beware, many of those listed will be 3 phase 380-440v input, and you need 1-phase 200-240v. Look before you bid!

                                                    #309532
                                                    duncan webster 1
                                                    Participant
                                                      @duncanwebster1

                                                      Keep an eye on **LINK**

                                                      for Gavin osman, he regularly sells second hand invereters, friend of mine has bought a couple off him no problem

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