What did you do Today 2018

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Mike on 28/03/2018 08:07:03:

…

While there looked at some lengths of timber for another job, and most were not straight. Is it me that's unlucky, or is this a common experience with this company?

My experience of B&Q (who stock about 40,000 items in 300 stores) ranges from 'hurrah' to disappointing. It's a DIY warehouse taking a 4% profit off a volume operation, not a traditional family shop. If you don't expect too much of the staff (themselves ranging from excellent to dazed, confused and bad-tempered) and have a good look at what you're buying, you should be OK. Most important they've not been difficult on the odd occasions I've taken duff stuff back.

If what they have isn't acceptable go elsewhere. I'm lucky – my local B&Q shares an estate with Screwfix, Homebase, and Wickes: sometimes I visit all four before buying anything.

Wood is a natural product. Quality has been dropping for nearly 300 years because previous generations chopped down most of the good stuff and rarely bothered to replant it. One reason you may be unlucky in store is that customers tend to take the best timber from the rack first. What's left behind is the dross; I doubt the store-man throws it away, instead he tops the rack up with a random selection of new wood. It's quite likely that the rack will eventually be full of seconds at which point a computer will alert the manager that it's not selling. Forget all notions that a timber expert is lovingly managing the MDF and might slip you a nice bit of walnut. (I know a proper timber merchant who is like that; good stuff but it's expensive, often eye-wateringly so.)

Sorry to indulge my hobby-horse again, but brand-names get my goat. They can't be taken at face-value. Rather it's best to assess how the supplier is performing today rather than blindly trust a name no matter how well established. Who are B&Q? Like Screwfix, Brico Depot, Comet, SuperDrug, Wegert, MVC and other enterprises they are a subsidiary of Kingfisher, previously known as Paternoster, originally FW Woolworth. It's a corporate asset. At the moment I'd say most B&Q  products are mid-range / cheap acceptable rather than 'top quality'. They're good for some things and not for others. Inconsistently. They don't make anything themselves. A change of board-room policy could take B&Q up-market or down-market or sell them on. Next year Brexit might turn them into a world force or it might destroy them. No-one knows!

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 28/03/2018 11:00:46

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Once again Dave (SOD) has hit the nail on the head!

He summarised exactly what B&Q and others stand for. I use these outlets mainly as a last resort and rarely feel that I have got value for money. What they do have though in their favour is the long opening hours so can you out of hole when wholesalers and other shops are shut.

Ian P

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

If you want straight bits for things like benches etc. Buy studding. Some stores should be doing better but wood is not like metal and does wriggle about with moisture content. Store tend to stack wood on end in racks instead of flat 'in stick' with lathes between pieces so free air circulates. You do have to be selective as to what you want out of any piece of wood. Timber can be straightened by spraying with water and clamping for a few days but it's a faff unless it's a special piece. Generally I buy sawn timber oversize and machine down to what I want.

regards Martin

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

Today I re-read an article about an early far-eastern lathe and am still astounded that such a device could have been constructed under such severe conditions **LINK**

I find that articles such as this are quite inspirational and a lesson to us all as to what can be achieved with limited resources and a lot of determination.

* Danny M *

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Hmm. I bought a load of 2"x4" studding for the kitchen ceiling recently and some of it was as bent as a nine bob bit. Trouble is, that's pretty normal so wouldn't have much joy trying to get it replaced. Possibly would have been slightly better if I'd gone for C24 rather than C16 (ie fewer knots) but even better if you can go and pick out the straighter lengths yourself. Of course, for the kitchen there was a lot of it so I had to have it delivered blind from the builders merchant.

Funnily enough, the few sheets of ply, MDF and blockboard I've bought from B&Q have been fairly flat. Possibly due to the way / place it's been stored at our local store.

Murray

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

I can agree with most of the comments about B & Q wood and ply. Bear in mind that the store is heated to suit customer comfort and the wood and ply is subjected to 24/7 dehydration.

Visit a dedicated wood merchant for decent wood, most of the yardmen are decent lads and will select and cut for you, you cannot run everything like our hobby on a shoestring.

Clive

[Alan EastwoodParticipant @alaneastwood24598]

When I needed a piece of plywood to make a replacement instrument panel for interior use on a yacht, I looked at both "marine" and WBP ply in various stores, but then found that Wickes sell 4 foot by 2 foot sheets of hardwood ply which proved to be quite suitable.

Norman

[Anonymous]

Posted by mechman48 on 27/03/2018 18:21:47:

Nice one Andrew… looking at the pic shouldn't the HSS tool tip be below the holders bottom plane, or am I reading wrong, is it for machining large dia.bores, ( cylinder blocks ) ? …

Flycutter was probably the wrong description. Think of it as a one tooth cutter for use on a horizontal mill. It will be used for machining the curved mounting surfaces on the afore mentioned castings. The diameters needed are 8.6" and 9.5". The HP and LP bores in the cylinder blocks will be machined conventionally with a boring head.

Andrew

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 28/03/2018 12:24:24:

Posted by mechman48 on 27/03/2018 18:21:47:

Nice one Andrew… looking at the pic shouldn't the HSS tool tip be below the holders bottom plane, or am I reading wrong, is it for machining large dia.bores, ( cylinder blocks ) ? …

Flycutter was probably the wrong description. Think of it as a one tooth cutter for use on a horizontal mill. It will be used for machining the curved mounting surfaces on the afore mentioned castings. The diameters needed are 8.6" and 9.5". The HP and LP bores in the cylinder blocks will be machined conventionally with a boring head.

Andrew

Methinks it still qualifies as a flycuttter, ie single tooth, just more of a boring flycutter than a facing flycutter. Nice job, whatever it is!

[john carruthersParticipant @johncarruthers46255]

B&Q, yes, my bro-in-law works the a local store.
4%??
and the rest.
£10 cheapo white box drill, costs £3.
Amazing really how it is manufactured, then shipped round the world, and still shows a small profit, for £3.

Couldn't buy the chuck for that

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by john carruthers on 28/03/2018 16:50:32:

B&Q, yes, my bro-in-law works the a local store.
4%??
and the rest.

King fisher made pretax circa 6.6% on turnover last year & that was because Screwfix did very well. B & Q did far worse so 4% is possibly  not  that far off I suspect

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 28/03/2018 17:03:19

[Steve Skelton 1Participant @steveskelton1]

Kingfisher profits at 6.6% includes all the write-offs, HO overheads, expenses etc etc etc and is its net,net, margin nothing to do with purchase cost vs selling price. So if their gross margin is less than 60% on most items I would be surprised.

[Barnaby WildeParticipant @barnabywilde70941]

Posted by Mike on 28/03/2018 09:48:37:

Thanks, guys – I am certainly not alone. I must explore other local timber sources. Our local Homebase had to close – far too few customers.

You will not get, because you cannot get, quality timber products from a DIY shed. Even many builders merchants are useless these days.

Every area will have a timber yard that serves the small builder. You won't have heard of them because they are loathe to attract a yard full of Joe Public. Ask around or even Google for your nearest, if you visit in off-peak times they will be happy to serve you.

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by Steve Skelton 1 on 28/03/2018 17:07:25:

Kingfisher profits at 6.6% includes all the write-offs, HO overheads, expenses etc etc etc and is its net,net, margin nothing to do with purchase cost vs selling price. So if their gross margin is less than 60% on most items I would be surprised.

So tell me how you purchase something without the infrastructure, staff etc to buy it

The manufactured cost ex the supplier may be low but the purchase cost to B & Q by the time it hits the shelf is effectively far far higher.The cost of getting the sale is just as hard. The difference is small & certainly not cloud cuckoo land figures of 60%

[Steve Skelton 1Participant @steveskelton1]

I’m not saying that you do not need an infrastructure to buy something but the cost of the item in isolation is small in comparison to its sale price, which is exactly what John Carruthers was pointing out. Successful FMCG organisations are those which can drive down their overheads as it goes straight onto the bottom line.

Gross margins in excess of 50% is normal for all large sheds and most high street business’s come to that.

[Anonymous]

Posted by Hopper on 28/03/2018 13:12:49:

Nice job, whatever it is!

Not only that but machined out of a lump of sticky hot rolled steel.

Andrew

[JimmieSParticipant @jimmies]

If you consider the number of sales an optician, furniture store, art gallery, jewellers, fashion shop, etc has in the average day and then take their total overheads – rates, rent, heating, lighting, security, staffing, pension contributions, advertising, etc, etc into consideration a substantial mark-up is required to stay afloat.

I was once told that expensive watches had a 650& mark-up and large furniture items 300% which, given the cost of staying open I could believe. As a late friend who was in the motorcycle business once said, ‘I have to stay open every Friday night or folk will drift elsewhere, even if I don’t even get enough across the counter to pay for the lights’.

Re buying wood – I have, when possible, got all timber from a traditional yard. While quite often it will not sell a cut length, the quality of material offsets the extra cost. And I usually find a good use for the off-cut.

Jim

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 28/03/2018 18:41:13:

Posted by Steve Skelton 1 on 28/03/2018 17:07:25:

Kingfisher profits at 6.6% includes all the write-offs, HO overheads, expenses etc etc etc and is its net,net, margin nothing to do with purchase cost vs selling price. So if their gross margin is less than 60% on most items I would be surprised.

So tell me how you purchase something without the infrastructure, staff etc to buy it

The manufactured cost ex the supplier may be low but the purchase cost to B & Q by the time it hits the shelf is effectively far far higher.The cost of getting the sale is just as hard. The difference is small & certainly not cloud cuckoo land figures of 60%

Gross margin is = price sold – (price paid + subcontractor costs). It doesn't include any overheads.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Today I was gently overtaken on the motorway by the first Jaguar I Pace I've seen – looked absolutely gorgeous in a rich, slightly purple tinged, blue. I was a bit confused by by its 67 plate … then I saw the 'proptotype vehicle' in neat modest white letters on its rear hatch.

Neil.

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 28/03/2018 21:01:40:

Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 28/03/2018 18:41:13:

Posted by Steve Skelton 1 on 28/03/2018 17:07:25:

Kingfisher profits at 6.6% includes all the write-offs, HO overheads, expenses etc etc etc and is its net,net, margin nothing to do with purchase cost vs selling price. So if their gross margin is less than 60% on most items I would be surprised.

So tell me how you purchase something without the infrastructure, staff etc to buy it

The manufactured cost ex the supplier may be low but the purchase cost to B & Q by the time it hits the shelf is effectively far far higher.The cost of getting the sale is just as hard. The difference is small & certainly not cloud cuckoo land figures of 60%

Gross margin is = price sold – (price paid + subcontractor costs). It doesn't include any overheads.

Try & keep up -The original discussion started when SillyOlldDuffer correctly observed that that B& Q were possibly working on 4% margin. ( may now be 6% )John Carruthers seemed to dispute that. My point is really in support of SillyOldDuffers which was again disputed

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 28/03/2018 22:01:32

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 28/03/2018 22:03:53

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Yes but there seems to be some confusion between net and gross profit. Quite possible to have 60% gross and 6% net!

Everyone is right!

[FarmboyParticipant @farmboy]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 28/03/2018 21:05:38:

Today I was gently overtaken on the motorway by the first Jaguar I Pace I've seen – looked absolutely gorgeous in a rich, slightly purple tinged, blue. I was a bit confused by by its 67 plate … then I saw the 'proptotype vehicle' in neat modest white letters on its rear hatch.

Neil.

I wasn't so long ago that Jaguar made cars with style and class . . .

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

When working i always costed things at X .58 which covered our costs entirely.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

This evening I was overtaken on the M4 by a customised something that I think was a car body with large diameter maybe 3ft but narrow wheels like a tractor. Too dark to see details but definitely different.

When I worked in the defence industry post cost-plus days MOD rules were actual labour costs plus 80% for overheads (including 24/7 security, very expensive equipment, development etc) plus 8% profit and a few % fiddle factors. Then when we got the contract the race was on with management to squeeze costs and boost profit up to 18% when the MOD were allowed to claw it back.

[robjon44Participant @robjon44]

Hi all, +1 for supporting local "proper wood yard", when I had my first house around 1970 there was a traditional yard about 300 yards away & as money was very tight I bought every bit of wood from there, including carrying the wood home manually or on my grandads barrow, money wasn't the only thing that was tight, still in business these days 48 years later but at least I have a car to cart the materials home in!

cheers Bob.

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