Vickers Bl 8 inch Howitzer cannon of 1917

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

One of the problems with separate shell and propellant is that if the shell is not rammed into the rifling enough and the charge is placed, on elevation the shell can fall back into the breech.

The consequences are dire as personell might still be alongside the gun.

I know of 2 cases, one in the Iraq war when an M109 had this scenario and was lost. Another was an M107 in BAOR.

Measuring rods were made to ensure ramming. Plus Hydraulic ramming fitted to guns.

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Clive Hartland on 12/05/2023 14:35:43:

One of the problems with separate shell and propellant is that if the shell is not rammed into the rifling enough and the charge is placed, on elevation the shell can fall back into the breech.

The consequences are dire as personell might still be alongside the gun.

I know of 2 cases, one in the Iraq war when an M109 had this scenario and was lost. Another was an M107 in BAOR.

Measuring rods were made to ensure ramming. Plus Hydraulic ramming fitted to guns.

There was a related issue with the 'Any Elevation' loading system originally fitted to QE class 15" battleships. The idea was to raise the rate of fire by omitting to depress back to level or near between rounds. However, under severe manoeuvreing conditions, as in battle, hydraulic power to the rammers might be starved, and when working at a high 'uphill' angle with a 1938 lb projectile, the wring of the driving band into the rifling leed could fail and the projectile follow the rammer out on withdrawal. The wring could also potentially fail through vibration after the propellant bags had been rammed, which would be much worse still.

I understand that, rather than modifying the equipment, it was decided simply to resume the operating practice of depressing the guns for loading, but to a wider tolerance than before of (IIRC) +5 to +10 degrees or so.

[Peter Bowers 3Participant @peterbowers3]

Hi All, I’ve made a start on my own 8″ BL Vickers. Just thinking ahead a bit, what colour would they have been painted in WW1. I understand there was probably a huge variation, & I think I read somewhere the original colour was a dark green. Is there any modern paint that would match the original.

Thanks in advance from Australia

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

One possibility, the Royal Artillery Museum in the UK might be able to provide a definitive color simply due to any restoration work they’ve done. https://royalartillerymuseum.com/ Some museums are pretty helpful, others not so much. But as far as an exact off the shelf color match? Doubtful, but that’s why they mix paint to the color you want. The other question is how glossy or non gloss was the original paint used? At one time those gloss paints were unknown. Although I’m unsure about what exactly would be used on a WW 1 artillery piece. As one example, most restored stationary steam engines in museums would actually be incorrect as far as true originality since many museums now use those high gloss paints. I suspect but don’t know for sure that the military would have used a flat paint to reduce any light reflections for the same reasons camouflage netting would have been used when the gun wasn’t in use.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Paints in the WW1 era would not have been dead flat matt, they would have been powder pigment in a linseed oil base so quite variable and more of a satin sheen/low gloss than a matt.

Obviously, 100 year old paints can change a lot, but a visit to Bovington and looking out for examples of original paint will show that WW1 and even WW2 era AFVs weren’t ‘matt’ finished in the same way as our models.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Wow, this is a can of worms. It seems that during WW2 British armour was painted in matt or dull paint. Post WW2, army vehicles were gloss bronze green, and it was only after mounting disquiet in the 1960s that matt disruptive paint schemes were brought in, in the 70s.

I found this on the net for WW1:

 

https://archive.armorama.com/forums/226059/index.htm

This is what Dick Taylor says in his book, “Warpaint, Vol.1” (pg. 21 and 31):

“There appears to have been at least two and probably three Brown hues in regular use in the WW1 period, and when researchers discover a reference mentioning Brown, they should always consider which is more likely. The first color was a medium Brown produced in matt but also a variety of gloss and semi-gloss finishes, and was often referred to as “Service Brown.” The second Brown was a lighter and slightly Greener shade, generally used in matt only, and was known as “Khaki” or sometimes “Khaki-Brown.” … There was also probably a third variety of Brown specifically used on Tanks, and this is discussed below.

[mal webberParticipant @malwebber91786]

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[mal webberParticipant @malwebber91786]

Hi all, it’s been a while, small update the Howitzer is back in the shed and I’ve made a small start on the  sheet work on the cradle,plenty still to get done on the sheet work and to build the left hand traversing slide, couple of pictures on how it looks.

Thanks Mal.

 

[mal webberParticipant @malwebber91786]

Hi all, I finished both sliding parts one to go on the cradle and other to attach to the trail ,both parts together allow for the 4 degrees transverse movement on the Howitzer cradle.

The part that attaches to the trail was made from solid, and the for the cradle was made from flat plate welded together and a bit of fettling to finish it ,couple of pics below on how things turned out.

Thanks Mal.

[Robert ButlerParticipant @robertbutler92161]

Thank you for the updates

Robert Butler

[mal webberParticipant @malwebber91786]

Hi all, small update on the Howitzer build. I’ve been busy on some detailing on the cradle with some rivets but now have run out so more on order to finish other side, the screws will be replaced with rivets on final fitment, after I finish other side it will be back onto trail to finish some fitments and rivets. couple of pics to see how it’s coming along.

Thanks Mal.

 

 

[Peter Bowers 3Participant @peterbowers3]

Looking Great Mal

[Robert ButlerParticipant @robertbutler92161]

Have I missed any updates on this project.

Robert Butler

[Robert ButlerParticipant @robertbutler92161]

BUMP

[Robert ButlerParticipant @robertbutler92161]

I think I must be missing something on this thread, on the old site I had placed a marker for updates which was lost when the new website was launched. As no one has replied to my recent query am I being indelicate requesting if the thread/project has progressed any further.

Robert Butler

[Robert Butler]

On Robert Butler Said:

… As no one has replied to my recent query am I being indelicate requesting if the thread/project has progressed any further.

Robert Butler

No harm in bumping the thread.  That Mal has stopped posting suggests his project has stalled, let’s hope temporarily.   Peter is silent too.  Life gets in the way.   Been pole-axed by illness here for nearly 2 years now.  All my projects are badly delayed, even the easy ones.

🙁

Dave

[Peter Bowers 3Participant @peterbowers3]

Hi all, would it be okay to post some of my pics here, or should I start my own thread.

I didnt want to hijack Mals Thread

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Try a new one.

[Peter Bowers 3Participant @peterbowers3]

Okay, I’ve made a new post

peters-vickers-bl-8-inch-howitzer-cannon-of-1917-scale-1:11

 

[mal webberParticipant @malwebber91786]

Hi all , the bl8 build stalled a couple years ago as life just got in the way , a year ago i had health problems which made going into shed and using the machines little unsafe , but slowly on the mend and hopefully pick on the build when I feel ready to get back into the build.

Thanks Mal.

[mal webber]

On mal webber Said:

Hi all , the bl8 build stalled a couple years ago as life just got in the way , a year ago i had health problems which made going into shed and using the machines little unsafe , but slowly on the mend and hopefully pick on the build when I feel ready to get back into the build.

Thanks Mal.

Unfortunately life does get in the way as does health issues and in your case making it dangerous to use machines.

Hope your health is recovering quickly as I am sure you can’t wait to be able to continue.

As and when you return to this build I will be watching as I have in the past even though I have not made comments on it, I have enjoyed all the build.

Take care and time before returning

[mal webber]

On mal webber Said:

… a year ago i had health problems which made going into shed and using the machines little unsafe , but slowly on the mend and hopefully pick on the build when I feel ready to get back into the build.

 

Me too, and ongoing.  I’m most unreliable tool in my workshop!

Hope you recover soon – the howitzer is very interesting model and it was going so well!

Best wishes,

Dave

 

[Peter Bowers 3Participant @peterbowers3]

Get well soon Mal

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