Steam Powered Lawn Mower!.

[Richard S2Participant @richards2]

Hope this forum section is ok to post this. i’ve been asked by the Museum Curator for which I volunteer for restoration work on antique and vintage garden machinery, to assess this for recommissioning.

It was a project built around 30 years ago, and fortunately the Curator has tracked down the builder, who is hopefully visiting us tomorrow at the Museum.

The Mower is an Atco 14 inch. Full strip down will commence soon. I’ll add to this when progress has been made.

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

Interesting mower look forwards to seeing your progress

H

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Splendid stuff !

MichaelG.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

A wonderful machine!

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

looks to be a copper boiler going by the upper most sid econnection so should not have rusted in 30yrs. Probably need stripping down to bare boiler and a proper test done if to be fully recommissioned to steam.

Hopefully that is a safety valve just going out the top of the  picture and not a wistle.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I remember seeing one many years ago at the Guildford club annual steam rally. Please ask the builder if that was him.

In case anyone doesn’t know see the history of Leyland Motors that became British Leyland.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

<p style=”text-align: left;”>Green’s of Leeds made steam lawn mowers, apparently up to 36″ cut. That must have been quite a beast</p>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Green_%26_Son

[Bazyle]

On Bazyle Said:

I remember seeing one many years ago at the Guildford club annual steam rally. Please ask the builder if that was him.

In case anyone doesn’t know see the history of Leyland Motors that became British Leyland.

Well Bazyle, He says that it was highly likely, as he has presented at many demonstrations, Clubs and Shows over 40+ years

Thank you all for the responses. We had a most interesting long chat with the builder of this project when he visited us today. The achievements and capability of this man are amazing. He has built many Traction Engines of various scales, designed, fabricated and bulit many steam power units, mainly oscillating cylinder types, built several full size Steam Lauches, skeleton clocks, automatons- I could go on.

He built and fabricated all of the parts of the power unit, making patterns and casting them.

The boiler was was fabricated by him and assembled/professionally welded by a highly qualified welder. Fully tested to 200 psi and certified originally. Working pressure of 80psi and will run at less than 30psi. Graded steel shell with copper tubes, as in all of his boilers and only using De min water, drain and dry after use. Began dismantling and have added some images below. All looking good so far-

Smokebox/chimney removed and provisional clean

Firebox door area showing quality weld bead-

Damper plate/ clean out apperture-

Apart from mowing, he also used it to make his tea, run other small engines from it on compressed air. He emphasised his principle of keeping everything basic and functional in design. His name may be familiar to some, having published a book ‘The Steam Launch’ in 1982. His name is Richard Mitchell. i have the green light to return this to a certified running condition. He was most pleased to hear this, as his health is deteriorating. Regards.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

NOW THAT’S WHAT I CALL ENGINEERING !  I see no sign of a crosshead guide so take it it’s an oscillating engine ? Why was the boiler shell rolled from plate rather than use drawn tube ? Just what was handy ? What size is the boiler ? Marvellous !  I hope the paperwork for the boiler still exists . Noel.

[noel shelley]

On noel shelley Said:

NOW THAT’S WHAT I CALL ENGINEERING !  I see no sign of a crosshead guide so take it it’s an oscillating engine ? Why was the boiler shell rolled from plate rather than use drawn tube ? Just what was handy ? What size is the boiler ? Marvellous !  I hope the paperwork for the boiler still exists . Noel.

It is indeed. Yes, he swears by the simplicity of the oscillating cylinder design. the rough boiler dimensions in ‘old money’ are approx 8 1/2″ dia x 20″ ht, I’ll check it next week and measure the volume.. The correct steel was not obtainable in that required size tube , hence the joint seam.

[Richard S2Participant @richards2]

Well, the whole machine has now been dismantled. We’re having to start from scratch with regard to recertifying the boiler. Unable to trace the paperwork. We’ve managed to engage a qualified NDT Inspector who will carry out a full ultrasonic testing etc. Date to be confirmed. Boiler is fully cleaned and ready for presentation. Volume is almost exactly 6 litres, so 33.12 bar/Litres. Couple of images showing the foundation ring of the firebox end:-

The door aperture. Note the forming marks on the inside to create the oval shape:-

Certainly robust in construction. this was his 18th boiler he’d designed and built. Fingers crossed it passes all requirements. Regards.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Maybe fire with a small propane bottle?

It most certainly needs to be restored to working/demonstration condition!

LPG would be cleaner, and faster, to get up to operating pressure.

I am a 12” to the foot ‘model engineer’, so a project like this would be attractive to me.

 

 

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

I will watch with great interest the progress, especially in the context of certifying the boiler ! I have an unused steel boiler of about the same size for a De Winton, designed and built by a professional about 25 years ago, BUT no paperwork. The loco is complete all bar a certified boiler.

In the reverse of this post, in the interim I have a little used lawn mower with a 2Hp Briggs engine, clutch, and chain drive that I’m thinking of putting on the De Winton frames, just for fun !

The Philistine !  Noel.

[Martin Johnson 1Participant @martinjohnson1]

So it’s just me who remains unimpressed by the consistency of those boiler welds, then ………………

Martin

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

No Martin, I was not going to comment but since you have I am inclined to agree. They don’t look like the work of a suitably coded welder – though If they will stand a 2x WP test Etc, ultrasonic and material tests Then I would be happy to operate it. That is why I will follow progress with interest and if a ticket can be got then there may be hope for my boiler.  Noel.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, I was thinking the same thing, too much build up in some, not a consistent size along the bead, and some undercut, not a very pro job in my opinion.

Regards Nick.

[Richard S2Participant @richards2]

Let’s hope the inspection of this boiler reveals a better weld pentration condition than the exterior standard of them.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

It’s quite likely a second weld on top of a perfectly adequate first run.  ‘Belt and braces’ in my book.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi NDIY, a pro welder wouldn’t do, or need to do a belt and braces job.

Regards Nick.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Hi Nick,

I doubt he would need to be a ‘coded’ welder to build his own boiler.  Belt and braces would be better, by far, than a failure.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Boilers up to about 6″ can be made at home by anybody in copper and even if the silver soldering is not pretty, if it looks sound and passes the various tests That’s fine, it gets a ticket. Nobody asks about the grade of copper or any impurities, or the type of sliver solder. Costly – YES – and if made commercially VERY !

The following are broad statements ! A bad weld will look bad and slag inclusions often obvious, variations in fillet may have little effect on the strength and porosity again is usually obvious. Under NDT tests these faults will show up. Provided the design is sound, the materials adequate, the prep and welding sound then following a hydraulic test to 2xWP all should be well.

Woe betide anyone who tries to make their own steel boiler ! Even if based on a known design it seems that calculations till the cows come home need to be provided, the right plate spec and certified( this I accept ), not just a coded welder but a welder coded for the types of joint and position, the right rods, right joint prep, and so it goes on. I’ve been welding for 60 years often producing structures that peoples lives have depended on BUT I can’t make my own boiler, no matter what test pressure is used, how thick the shell is or how good the welds are. I can see why almost nobody makes their own steel boiler.   Noel.

[Roy BirchParticipant @roybirch29994]

The welds just look like he was quicker in some areas and slower in others, I was trained at BOC many years ago to weld, Solder and braze. I did ask at my club if I could weld a steel boiler, as you can imagine that got downvoted and the other was could I weld a copper boiler with copper rods as opposed to silver solder, that got downvoted, the interesting thing here was that although they downvoted my questions they never answered why I could not do it, as model engineers we seem to be dismissive first rather than supportive.

[not done it yet]

On not done it yet Said:

Hi Nick,

I doubt he would need to be a ‘coded’ welder to build his own boiler.  Belt and braces would be better, by far, than a failure.

Hi NDIY,I didn’t say anything about a “coded” welder, and you don’t need to be, to be a pro welder, I was a pro welder all my working life, coded welders would be a pro welder in the first instance, but the codes would be for specific applications and jobs, as Noel has said, and are often job and time limited. In my old job, myself and three others were coded by British Rail, to repair railway wagons that moved thousands of tonnes f material that the company produced every week, we would have had to work only on these wagons to BR specs, and the code would not be recognised by any one or thing else, however, our stupid chargehand told the company that they probably wouldn’t get any of us to do the job, as we would have to have travelled to a specific goods yard to do the work, and so the idea was dropped.

Belt and braces don’t automatically stop a failure, as if there is the slightest flaw in the weld your are trying to protect, the flaw will grow over time into your belt and braces, and failure will probably happen anyway. In fact your belt and braces could introduce more distortion, stresses and strains that the joint can handle.

Regards Nick.

[JAParticipant @ja]

I am not sure what I am looking at. This is a vertical fire tube boiler. Is the boiler contained within the steel work? If so, the welds in the photographs are not subjected to boiler pressure and would be adequate for the job. However as welds they are not impressive.

As a mechanical engineering apprentice I was taught that I could not weld and have been happy with that ever since. My experienece is that you should always use the best welder you can find and if anyone says they can weld just disbelieve him.

JA

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

According to the interweb, PSSR requires welders to be ‘qualified’ and use approved welders procedures. I doubt it is retrospective, so if you can prove the boiler was made before PSSR came into force, it might be possible to get insurance, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

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