Sight glass or plastic?

[Izack MaddParticipant @izackmadd89335]

Hi,

Another weekend, another daft question.

I'm wanting to put a sight glass on a small open flame heated. Small spirit lamp. The bottom of the "boiler" is flat and about 300mm diameter. The glass would probably be another 50mm further out from the side. The internal temp shouldn't get higher than 100c, probably not that. As there will be volatile fluids in there. Ethanol to be precise. Which boils at 70c ish, also it a low to no pressure system. Just trying to boil of the unwanted fluids from the wanted, and be able to collect the condensed evaporated liquids. If you know what I mean. Purely for the purpose of refining certain liquids. That would never come in contact with a glass of tonic water and some ice.

So here goes. And please be aware I'm just a thick wooden top. So simple is best.

Glass is nice doesn't stain and can cope with none direct heat. But Perspex is cheaper.

Can I get away with 15mm OD Perspex pipe?

How do I stop it deforming?

If so how? And how do I attach plastic pipe to copper/brass fittings?

And finally. If I've got to go with glass. Same question. How on earth do you get a water tight seal with glass on brass/copper?

So picture are very helpful as are names of parts and possible suppliers

[Izack MaddParticipant @izackmadd89335]

How hot can it get?

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Perspex, or rather acrylic starts to soften at 100 degrees c so I wouldn't put it anywhere near a heat source like that. It'll also degrade with repeated heating and cooling cycles. Glass all the way in this case.

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Acrylic also expands and contracts with temperature at an alarming rate. You learn that when you design shop fascia signs for a year.

[Izack MaddParticipant @izackmadd89335]

Thanks Chris

I had similar concerns over the melting, but keep reading on different websites how people have used acrylic in models.

My only issue now is how do I attach it?

Any polite suggestions gratefully received.

[michael howarth 1Participant @michaelhowarth1]

Attach the glass tube in exactly the same way as sight glasses are attached in locomotive water gauges. Loads of designs/plans available.

Mick

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

If you are using 15mm plumbing fittings which it sounds like you are then use a standard compression fitting and replace the olive with a suitable 1/16" nominal "O" ring. Probably have to take it down to 10mm or 12mm fittings to suit metric glass but the fittings are off the shelf.

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Hope I do not live anywhere near you, all that certainly sounds very dangerous!

Acrylic plus heat and a solvent! I would not be risking anything like that without a qualified chemist advising me.

What you are proposing sounds very hazardous in many respects, including using open flames with vaporising flammable solvents, etc, etc.

It sounds like you may be planning to operate a still, it may be necessary to have a licence for operating one of those, certainly used to be when I was indirectly involved with the chemical industries.

Sorry to be a wet blanket but you certainly need to investigate what you propose, in considerable depth, including its possible affect on insurance.

 

Edited By V8Eng on 13/02/2015 09:19:43

[Izack MaddParticipant @izackmadd89335]

Posted by mick H on 13/02/2015 06:43:52:

Attach the glass tube in exactly the same way as sight glasses are attached in locomotive water gauges. Loads of designs/plans available.

Mick

I've been looking all over but I'm struggling to find actual plans just people on forums talking about it. I'm probably not using the right search criteria. Could you suggest a particular link please

[Izack MaddParticipant @izackmadd89335]

Posted by V8Eng on 13/02/2015 09:09:27:

Hope I do not live anywhere near you, all that certainly sounds very dangerous!

Acrylic plus heat and a solvent! I would not be risking anything like that without a qualified chemist advising me.

What you are proposing sounds very hazardous in many respects, including using open flames with vaporising flammable solvents, etc, etc.

It sounds like you may be planning to operate a still, it may be necessary to have a licence for operating one of those, certainly used to be when I was indirectly involved with the chemical industries.

Sorry to be a wet blanket but you certainly need to investigate what you propose, in considerable depth, including its possible affect on insurance.

Edited By V8Eng on 13/02/2015 09:19:43

First of all I ac do have a chemist advising. Second acrylic should only be affected by acetone based solvent which wouldn't even need heating. Thirdly distilleries have been doing the very same thing for several hundred years. Fourthly so long as any production produces no was problems, is for specific use such as heating, and is under 2500 litre a year, and never leaves the premises, then it's fully leagal. According to HMRC. You don't even need a licence to distill vehicle grade fule. But I'm actually recapturing used ethanol that has a dissolved solid in it then I can reuse the same solvent again and again..

But thanks for the concern.

[Izack MaddParticipant @izackmadd89335]

Posted by JasonB on 13/02/2015 07:45:24:

If you are using 15mm plumbing fittings which it sounds like you are then use a standard compression fitting and replace the olive with a suitable 1/16" nominal "O" ring. Probably have to take it down to 10mm or 12mm fittings to suit metric glass but the fittings are off the shelf.

That's one of the reasons I chose that size as all the sites mentioned normal fittings. Just not the o ring bit. Thanks as that makes lots of sense as there is no pressure other than the volume of water because the top of the pipe is vented. Also there's a place on eBay does any size glass for just under £5 including P&P and cutting off a 15mm OD x 300mm glass tube. So I should be ok, perhaps loosen the opening a little with a dremell type sander. If there the same size. As Im also thinking different materials different expansion rates. 

Thanks

Edited By Izack Madd on 13/02/2015 10:03:41

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Izack,

You do realise that you will have to apply for a rectifier's licence for this to be legal?

http://www.gov.uk/licence-to-rectify-or-compound-spirits

It's free to do this, but please explicitly confirm that you are going to comply with these requirements.

Neil

[Izack MaddParticipant @izackmadd89335]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 13/02/2015 10:17:46:

Izack,

You do realise that you will have to apply for a rectifier's licence for this to be legal?

http://www.gov.uk/licence-to-rectify-or-compound-spirits

It's free to do this, but please explicitly confirm that you are going to comply with these requirements.

Neil

Hi,

I've no intention of breaking any laws. As I said I've checked out through HRMC and as far as I've been informed by the government I'm not actually creating anything alcoholic or changing anything. Just turning it from a saturated liquid. Into steam and back into an unsaturated liquid and back again. I'm not rectifying the ethanol just sepperating it from the dissoosolids which are what I'm after. But thanks for the link I'll check it out and act appropriately to stay within the law.

A very valid point which I endorce and take on board. While my approach to getting answers to my question were flippant all seriousness is undertaken.

Thanks Neil

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

As long as the end product doesn't exceed 40% BV…. & for personal use only LOL

Cheers

George

[Izack MaddParticipant @izackmadd89335]

Sadly even at 40% ABV it's very illegal to so much as taste it. Even if it's for your own consumption. So long as it's for a provable use such as powering a vehicle 95%. But that has duty on it and has to be under 2500 litres per year. Or bio-ethanol 99%. For home heating still under 2500 litres per year. And no waste handling problems. It's leagal. But as soon as you add ice and lemon… BIG no no.

[FMESParticipant @fmes]

I think you have to modify your fuel system components quite extensively to be able to use ethanol based fuels.

[Izack MaddParticipant @izackmadd89335]

Posted by Lofty76 on 13/02/2015 12:56:33:

I think you have to modify your fuel system components quite extensively to be able to use ethanol based fuels.

Most modern engines since about 2008 ish have been built to run on either ethanol or petrol without the need for alterations it is also used in bio-diesel to boost the energy output.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Most interesting … if you get into the details you need a 'compounder's licence' if you are going to take your sloe gin round to a mate's house…

Neil

[Izack MaddParticipant @izackmadd89335]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 13/02/2015 13:26:01:

Most interesting … if you get into the details you need a 'compounder's licence' if you are going to take your sloe gin round to a mate's house…

Neil

" But as soon as you add ice and lemon… BIG no no."

If you wish to make your self a methanol suicide cocktail be my guest. And as sloe gin is made by adding sloe berrys to ready made gin. Also even if a mate came around to mine for a drink, if that was what I was making, as soon as the ice hit the glass of ethanol its big fines and probably prison time without a distillers licence. And plant approval.

https://www.gov.uk/distillers-licence-plant-approval

[Jerry WrayParticipant @jerrywray14030]

A note about the regs. pointed to above. The relevant word is 'spirits'

In the end its all about taxation. A consideration may be the source of the ethanol. If you are being supplied with ethanol from somebody's dutiable source, that's to say on which duty has not been paid, then you could be in trouble.

Meths and it's synonyms are supplied with a denaturant . In the past methanol, hence the methies you would find on .the park benches. It was quite straightforward to distil that off.

Nowadays other denaturants are in common use, including 'Bitrex' (look it up on the web) which makes the beverage undrinkable. Removing this is almost impossible and its presence is almost undetectable unless you try to drink it..

Once denatured and duty paid then OK. See the shelves of the 'sheds'. Remove the denaturant then trouble ensues.

Jerry

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> The relevant word is 'spirits'

Which MRC define as over 1.5% alcohol! The point about sloe gin is that it constitutes "materially changing the nature of the drink", presumably to get control over people who make alcopops <spit> if nothing else.

By the way I'm 100% happy that Izack is not doing anything out oof order, least of all operating an illicit still. Now what's on netflicks? – Whisky Galore?

Neil

[norman valentineParticipant @normanvalentine78682]

I once used to run a winery and we had a problem with some of the wine, it started to ferment in the bottles and corks kept popping. I had to call in HMRC to witness the pouring of it down the drain, 1000 bottles! They only watched for a short time and then left me to it. It was only after I had finished that someone pointed out that I could have distilled it to make Brandy. Just as long as I didn't get caught!

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