Lister advice

[bill ellisParticipant @billellis45274]

Hi all,

Quick bit of advice required. Just got a Lister D (Anticlockwise) to have a go at restoring prior to building something from castings.

Strip down going well apart from the cylinder head. The head seems well and truly stuck. All 5 nuts are removed from the studs (actually 4 removed as 1 was missing), given the head/block joint a good spray with penetrating oil, also run oil down the studs, squirted some in through the plug hole. Tapped all round with a rubber mallet, pulled pushed, given it a good talking to and still it won't budge. I'd rather not start wedging the head off but any advice before I inflict violence on it would be very welcome.

Regards

Bill

[bill ellisParticipant @billellis45274]

[Nick M0NPHParticipant @nickm0nph]

Martin P is your man for anything Lister

Nick

[Brian Sweeting 2Participant @briansweeting2]

If it has compression try turning the engine over.

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Bill,

The D is renowned with this problem, the head bolts rust and expand jamming the head on, there is no seal under the brass nuts and water can leak down, you can wedge the head off using hard wood wedges to create a gap to pass a saw blade to cut the studs, your going to need to replace the old ones anyway, the head gaskets are available as are the gaskets etc.

All the threads on the engine are Whitworth.

Martin P

[bill ellisParticipant @billellis45274]

Many thanks all,

Managed to get it off by progressively wedging up until there was a 1/2" gap, bit of wiggling and it was off. The old studs have seen better days and they too seem stuck fast in the block. I've given them a liberal dose of penetrating fluid to see if that shifts them overnight. If not tomorrow I'll cut them down a bit and weld nuts on, the heat should break them free.

Quite enjoying the challenge of old iron, only downside is the smell of old oil and fuel. Not sure where the last owner got the petrol from but it smelt a bit ripe.

Fortunately I have loads of Whitworth fastenings and a good set of taps for cleaning out threads.

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Bill,

If you dont already know if you send me the serial no and spec no I will be able to tell you its age. I own ten D's in various states of repair and have a few spare parts for them.

martin p

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Do you not have a stud remover (and installer) – I mean a tool for undoing studs, not a ‘broken stud extractor’ (which are mostly a waste of time and likely to cause more damage)? Usually found as part of a quality socket set, or as separate additions to sets. Heat will certainly help…

One like this:

**LINK**

Two nuts locked together will sometimes aid unscrewing studs, from engine blocks for instance. But long studs may well twist.

[bill ellisParticipant @billellis45274]

Well done NDIY, you reminded me that I do have such a device in my box of tools that don't get used very often. I'll dig it out and give it a go before resorting to more extreme measures.

[bill ellisParticipant @billellis45274]

4 out with the extractor, 1 broke off with about 1/2" showing. Will get the welder out for that one.

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

The corroded studs usually twist and break, if they do break saw them off so about 1/4 of an inch is left, obtain some steel about 3/4 to one inch thick , drill a hole in the plate to the the tapping size of the stud, then open this hole to the diameter of the stud for 1/4 of inch,then place the plate over the remains of the stud,this effectively becomes a drill jig,for the tapping drill. Securely clamp the plate in position ,and then drill a hole(TAPPING SIZE) down the centre of the stud , then flush off the remains of the stud, then take the correct thread size tap and CAREFULY start the tap in the hole this action can take the remains of the thread of the stud out of the cylinder head.Sometimes the first couple of turns of the old thread can be picked out of the hole with something pointed and sharp such as a scriber and the rest can removed by using the tap.If you think this is a lot of trouble and you try just centre popping the stud and try to drill the stud ,the drill will wander off course as the cast iron cyl head is softer than the stud.

[bill ellisParticipant @billellis45274]

Posted by Nigel McBurney 1 on 18/10/2019 12:45:13:

The corroded studs usually twist and break, if they do break saw them off so about 1/4 of an inch is left, obtain some steel about 3/4 to one inch thick , drill a hole in the plate to the the tapping size of the stud, then open this hole to the diameter of the stud for 1/4 of inch,then place the plate over the remains of the stud,this effectively becomes a drill jig,for the tapping drill. Securely clamp the plate in position ,and then drill a hole(TAPPING SIZE) down the centre of the stud , then flush off the remains of the stud, then take the correct thread size tap and CAREFULY start the tap in the hole this action can take the remains of the thread of the stud out of the cylinder head.Sometimes the first couple of turns of the old thread can be picked out of the hole with something pointed and sharp such as a scriber and the rest can removed by using the tap.If you think this is a lot of trouble and you try just centre popping the stud and try to drill the stud ,the drill will wander off course as the cast iron cyl head is softer than the stud.

Excellent idea, will give it a go.

[bill ellisParticipant @billellis45274]

Nigel,

You are a star, worked better than I expected, the tap wound the remains out leaving a perfect thread.

Thank you.

Bill

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

Glad to be of some help,I started with a Lister D back in 1974 and have restored a fair number of engines,great hobby and if you buy the right enginesy you dont loose money but it does cost a lot to transport and exhibit them , especially when you fancy the larger engines.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

+1 for the "jig" described above!

DON'T use Easyouts (Described to me as "The most misnamed tool in the workshop" )

Many years ago, someone removed the head from a Triumph Mayflower, where, because of moisture and different metals, the studs had corroded the head. He made up a close fitting, thin tube to fit over the stud, with teeth non the end. This trepanned the rust so that the head could be removed.

Sometimes, a stud can be removed after hammering on the end of the stud, to break the rust, but not always.

If the stud can be rotated, even slightly, penetrating oil, and wriggling to and from may enable the stud to be freed enough to be removed.

Howard

[bill ellisParticipant @billellis45274]

Work on removing all the bits from the block is now done, all the studs successfully removed. The head had 3 studs broken flush (where the rocker cover and hopper cover plate sit). Much easier to remove those as I just set the head up on the Bridgeport and used a carbide end mill to take out the centre, followed by the tapping drill, followed by the tap. All 3 done in less than 15 minutes. Probably could have done the same with the block but its a hefty lump and I still have to get the flywheel off. Next task to make a gib key puller and wrestle the thing apart. I'm sure the exercise will do me good.

Fully agree with the comment on "easyouts" spawn of Satan designed those.

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