Help request to start old computer and set BIOS

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Someone called Dave living at Cross Hands, Llanelli, Wales, SA14 *** would appreciate some help to get a computer that has been idle for a few years started and the BIOS settings checked so it starts easily.
A new battery has been fitted to the motherboard.
The computer came with an Emco lathe and is the dedicated machine.

Anyone in that area with some knowledge of computers prepared to help out. ?

Emgee

 

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

Is it wise to publish the full name address and postcode?

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

I thought the same after posting it but unfortunately I am unable to edit the message.

There’s no number for the house in question or surname so not quite full details.

Perhaps a moderator can take out the 2nd part of the postcode.  [Done! regards, Dave]

Emgee

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

I am surprised the BIOS is not in non-volatile memory. My experience with such things is that often it is the failure of a hard drive to work that stops things from progressing. There is also the possibility that there is a memory issue, I would see if I could pull the memory chips and replace them back in the connector. This may wipe away any corrosion or dirt that is interfering with the start up. When switched on does the computer make any beeping noises or put dots on the screen, they can give indications of where the fault is for that machine?

Martin C

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Thanks for the deletion Dave.

Martin

This computer has been unused for many years so the CR battery was dead and has been replaced and I don’t have access to it, I live in the East of England.

The last time I had this the computer wouldn’t start unless the Esc key was depressed when powering up, another needed an F key held down to start.

After starting I have had the usual choices F1 or F2 and proceeded to get to the DOS screen to check Directoy file content and if installed go to WIN

The computers being described here are old possibly Win95 machines running old software normally without problems.

The reason for the request for help is Dave is not so computer savy, or so he says.

 

Emgee

 

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

This might possibly be of use/ interest:

https://groups.io/g/Emco-CNC-Users/topic/acc_bios_settings/104015890

MichaelG.

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Thanks Michael but the system connects via 485 not ethernet but interesting to see the BIOS settings mentioned.

Emgee

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

If there is no one local it should be possible to sort this out over the phone using a video messaging app so the helper can see what is going on.

Robert.

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

some of the early small boards  used a non-Intel 686 clone that is incompatible with windows post win98 – they also can’t run modern Linux O/S systems. The need to ensure that the small cell that keeps the date/time + some supposed nv storage working is often overlooked.

 

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

It’s common for holding down the escape key, top left on the keyboard when powering up with a new battery. This should get you into the BIOS to update the time and date. As already mentioned, the BIOS programming should be intact and after setting the date there should be something telling you how to get back out of the BIOS.

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Yes Old Mart, Esc does quite often work to get into the BIOS, after setting time, Date and selected the disc to run from usual to leave by Save and Exit.

I have found out today Dave hasn’t got a keyboard yet so no further attempts have been made to get running, will update when more is known.

 

Emgee

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Most modern keyboards have a USB connection, but if it is very old it might need a round connector. If it has both, it might be better with USB although it might be a requirement to add “boot from USB” from inside the BIOS.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Sorry to stir the gloomy pot, but recovering from a flat CMOS battery can be a right pig.

Sometimes hard to change them without removing and replacing connectors, which can add more faults.   When the battery dies it can leave the BIOS in a distressed state, and so does simply plugging in a fresh battery.   Usually necessary to short the BIOS out to reset it, for which purpose a jumper may be provided. Or not!   If not, remove the old battery and leave well alone for between 10 to 90 minutes, then put the new battery in.

Some machines come with the battery soldered in; it’s not expected to last longer than the battery!   Others are fitted with super capacitors rather than batteries, causing other peculiarities!

How to get into the BIOS varies between makers and models, and breaking in can be tricky.  Not always clear once inside what needs to be done to restore order.

If simply changing the battery and jumpering the BIOS doesn’t fix it, I suggest taking it to a repair shop.  They’ve seen it all!

At work, dealing with desktops and laptops in 6 figure numbers, a percentage were written-off due to old-age battery failure.   Repairs cost money and machines old enough to suffer battery failure are likely to fail again for other reasons.  Not worth fixing. If it wasn’t a cheap, quick fix, default action was to scrap it.  The organisation got a faster computer that was good for another 7 to 10 years.  (Laptops didn’t last so long – people drop them!)  Though budget managers hoped they would last forever, no-one expected computers would.

Whether or not a new computer will run ancient software is another nasty question…  Is the model available second-hand?

Dave

 

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Frankly the best would probably be to scrap the controller and fit a self contained one.  There was a thread on here in 2018 asking for recommendations and the OP eventually got a 990TDC unit which I think comes from Seiki systems.  It could be worth upgrading the stepper drivers to modern ones at the same time.

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

John

Nothing wrong with the controller, problem is the computer that sends commands to the lathe to operate the program.

Nothing to be gained by fitting modern steppers/drivers as the original have the same accuracy specs as new units.

I posted this topic to see if there was anyone with computer knowledge local to the computer owner who could help him with bringing the computer back to operating order after being unused for a number of years.

When I was last in contact with him he was still seeking a PS2 keyboard and mouse, they are available on eBay for next to nothing so I am unsure why there is any delay.

Emgee

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

[INTERLUDE]

Not sure if this is the 990 that John had in mind, but he packs a lot into 23:30 of video

.

.

MichaelG.

[Emgee]

On Emgee Said:

[…]

I posted this topic to see if there was anyone with computer knowledge local to the computer owner who could help him with bringing the computer back to operating order after being unused for a number of years.

When I was last in contact with him he was still seeking a PS2 keyboard and mouse, they are available on eBay for next to nothing so I am unsure why there is any delay.

Emgee

Other than it being a PS2 machine … do we actually know anything about this computer ?

MichaelG.

.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS/2_port

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Given when the EMCO machine was designed and made I doubt that the stepper drivers are anything like as good as modern ones.  Machines of this vintage, like the Denford ones, tended to use the L297/L298 drivers which don’t microstep.  But the motors operate pretty well with modern microstepping drivers which give quieter running, better acceleration, and potentially better resolution.  I assume that the PC is essentially sending parsed g-code commands to the controller to make it generate the pulses.  But this is an old PC, and when/if the BIOS problem is fixed might have further problems, could suffer a disc crash, or other hardware failure. And the controller may also fail.

John Stevenson upgraded a lot of machines using these packaged controllers and found them very useful and a better bet than trying to keep the original kit working.

An alternative would be one of the GRBL lathe variants now around though that’s more work.  There is an app called CNCL available for Windows tablets that will control a lathe through an Arduino operating as a motion controller.

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

A little information known about the computer.
The machine is a Compaq Presario CD5 523 which has an integrated screen.

Not certain but most likely has DOS 3.1 or later installed along with Win95 on a hard drive.
It will have an expansion slot loaded with a board to provide RS485 connectivity for communicating with the lathe,
program for this is WinNC in which programs can be written and saved to a library for use as required.

Not all computers have a motherboard that has an expansion slot suitable for the type of expansion board used,
especially newer models.

Following a request from lathe owner Dave I have today sent a link for the PS2 keyboard and mouse required to operate the computer so watch this space.

Emgee

Tried to edit formatting errors but no luck.

 

 

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

John

Attached chart from the lathe manual, modern steppers won’t improve the performance.

Emgee

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Emgee, don’t know if you have seen this gekk info I do have both a PS2 keyboard and mouse, that I can give to Dave, just for the price of postage, if that’s of any help.

Regards Nick.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Compaq Presario CD5 523

[probably CDS]

The archeological dig starts here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compaq_Presario

MichaelG.
.

Edit: https://www.dreamcast.nu/en/compaq-presario-cds-520/

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Hi Nick

Thanks for the link, very informative article.
Looks like the BIOS battery cell is board mounted where on Dave’s I believe it is wired in.

Also as said I sent a link to Dave yesterday for a keyboard and mouse on eBay, will message him and see if he has bought them or would like to accept your generous offer.

Emgee

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Emgee, it wouldn’t improve the resolution but there are other benefits of microstepping.

[george baker 1Participant @georgebaker1]

Hi

it looks like it is not PS/2 (with the attendant ADF problems) but just uses the connector. It should autodetect the hard drive which is a start.If it doesnt then an old Live Linux (Knoppix?) may restart it, but the problem will be to access the original software.

 

In the hands of a novice I suggest Dave contacts the local Old Computer enthusiasts group, because the risk of damaging the vital software.  There may even be a local Computer Conservation Group who can help.

 

I am too far away to help

 

George

[Author]

Posts