Ebay and VAT as from July 1st.

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember12892]

[This posting has been removed]

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember12892]

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Seems logical … VAT notionally collected at the point of import.

MichaelG.

[CarlParticipant @carl48656]

This already happens to goods coming into UK from EU on eBay…..bye bye to bargains from Germany, France etc. (VAT on item and post)

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Don't recall many bargains coming from Germany or France

Tony

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Dead right, Tony, Germany in particular seems to charge high postage rates.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Carl on 11/06/2021 16:07:35:

This already happens to goods coming into UK from EU on eBay…..bye bye to bargains from Germany, France etc. (VAT on item and post)

.

Yes, it was all pre-ordained EU-wide … UK only ‘adopted early’ because we exited.

MichaelG.

[Oily RagParticipant @oilyrag]

So is VAT collected on second hand goods as well, despite the fact that VAT will already have been paid when they were originally purchased? If so it sounds like double taxation. I can understand VAT being levied on new items but surely there is an exemption for second hand goods.

This I see as opening a whole nest of problems. My daughter, who lives in Spain, does all my eBay sales – so as she is EU based I take it the goods can be shipped from the UK as necessary without VAT. As she acts as my agent, the benefit is accrued within the EU and does not leave the EU.

Martin

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Oily Rag on 12/06/2021 12:55:14:

So is VAT collected on second hand goods as well, despite the fact that VAT will already have been paid when they were originally purchased? If so it sounds like double taxation. I can understand VAT being levied on new items but surely there is an exemption for second hand goods.

This I see as opening a whole nest of problems. My daughter, who lives in Spain, does all my eBay sales – so as she is EU based I take it the goods can be shipped from the UK as necessary without VAT. As she acts as my agent, the benefit is accrued within the EU and does not leave the EU.

Martin

I'd take advice.

• VAT is paid on second-hand goods whenever the seller is VAT registered. In the UK it's necessary to register for VAT when turnover exceeds £85000. The £85000 limit allows tiny businesses and private individuals to trade on a small scale in second-hand goods without paying VAT. But only up to £85000.
• Although from July VAT will collected in the same way in the UK and the EU, the rates and rules may change at the border. Buying from Spain, British VAT is collected and paid by Spanish Suppliers , whilst Spaniards buying from the UK will cause the UK supplier to collect and pay Spanish VAT. Not too difficult if Spain and the UK have the same rules & rates, a right pain if they are different. It's the sort of situation major suppliers understand already but the little guy will have to suss out for himself. Or get an agent.
• Martin's question about the implications of his daughter managing sales on his behalf from the EU is beyond me!
  • In principle Martin in the UK is the supplier, and should collect Spanish VAT, but I don't think its a problem for an Agent in Spain to handle that. Except the Agent is providing a service, which is also liable for EU VAT. An investigator would wonder if this a business or not. Anyhoo, I guess a Spanish Agent operates under EU VAT rules, and – like the UK system – the EU has a threshold below which VAT isn't collected. I don't know what it is.
  • Martin said 'As she acts as my agent, the benefit is accrued within the EU and does not leave the EU.' To be true, I think Martin would have to export goods to Spain without ever being paid for them, i.e no benefit ever comes back to him from Spain. In which case his daughter isn't an Agent, she's benefiting from gifts, to which another set of rules apply. For tax purposes the nature of the business relationship matters, not family.
  • The big boys manipulate the system all the time: for example by operating a service based in Dublin allowing self-employed persons to earn money in England, paying profits to a bank in Lichtenstein, where the majority shareholder is a company registered in Mexico, that's actually owned by an American living in London, who pays no tax. Not the sort of game you and I can play, but an expert might be able to arrange something!

I suggest the amount of money involved is important. Provided the value of individual transactions and the annual total are both low, then I doubt a private individual would be risking much by playing dumb! However, I'd get professional advice if trade looked remotely like exceeding any of the VAT or Customs thresholds, or might run foul of any other rules on either side of the border. If Martin's endeavour is big enough to be a business, it probably is, and the authorities would proceed accordingly. No penalties for tax avoidance, but tax evasion is punished severely unless the method is so complicated a court can't understand it!

Dave

[CarlParticipant @carl48656]

Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 11/06/2021 17:11:03:

Don't recall many bargains coming from Germany or France

Tony

Found plenty – photographic equipment, musical Instruments and others , bide your time and even after postage it was well wortthwhile, both on Ebay and from other suppliers.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

I bought my Proxon table saw new from Germany. Paid German VAT and postage and it was still considerably cheaper than UK price. Came in a couple of days. I doubt it would be as easy now.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by br on 11/06/2021 14:21:56:

From 1 July, and in line with new legislation, eBay will collect VAT on all goods which are sold through eBay and shipped to buyers in the European Union (EU) with a consignment value up to EUR150. eBay will collect VAT on all sales to private individuals, regardless of seller status. eBay will declare the VAT collected under our Import One Stop Shop (IOSS) number.

bill

.

Just to keep the discussion on track …

bill’s post says:

“… sold through eBay and shipped to buyers in the European Union (EU) …”

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

The brief note that I linked in January is relevant

… see the post at the bottom of this page: **LINK**

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=170119&p=2

MichaelG.

[Author]

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