BBC 2 – Looking for Backyard Engineers

[magpieParticipant @magpie]

Maybe nobody has bothered to look at the link. I am not very clued up on TV companies but the programme is being made by RDF television for the BBC. I have no idea who they are but it would seem to me that they will just have been told by the BBC make us a program about so and so, and let the get on with it.

[martin ranson 2Participant @martinranson2]

Dear diane … having read the replies listed above I would be curious to know what the BBC 2 programme producers are likely to think about us. The replies seem to be all negative as regards the capabilities of the BBC.

How do you get the BBC to read everything listed above, is there any way to let them read what is printed ? Their thoughts would be most interesting.

martin

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

The same old,same old moans about the Beeb and, in respect of this sort of programme content, quite justified. It loses a lot of its critical value,however, when it is argued on the basis of the licence fee. There seem to be people who believe that commercial television is, somehow free. It most certainly is not!! Not only do you pay for the rubbish programmes through your purchases, you also have to endure the brain-dead output of the cretinous advertisers!! And as for Murdoch's quest to take over the media world. The Beeb has, indeed, lost its reputation for excellence, mainly by trying to emulate the commercial populist crap. However, there are still the occasional gems in there … just don't have unreasonable expectations.

rgds

Bill

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

In real terms BBC is probably no more biased than many of the news organisations, I remember the headlines when a well known news organisation (apparently) announced that it would be changing which side it supported before a UK General Election, now that is clear statement of bias!

People find bias mostly when they disagree with what is being said, that is totally different to taking an objective and factual view.

Politicians do seem to take more and more interest in the BBC, they are also the ones who seem to claim it is biased against them, particularly when in power, unfortunately they also control the purse strings.

I am bemused that many people are prepared to pay large sums of money to watch non terrestrial broadcasting packages, but object to a very small licence fee, which would probably continue as form of taxation even if the BBC was abolished or privatised.

Personally I like the online content finding it useful and informative.

I do not like my programmes interupted by adverts, I do not want to see programmes consisting mainly of people looking for five minutes of fame by being on the "telly", unfortunately this last item seems to be unavoidable on most channels.

As a (not to be taken as an insult) aside, perhaps the they were surprised when Steve's son turned up in a suit, expecting something more appropriate to model flying..

Rant over, I shall now put my tin hat on and duck!

Edited By V8Eng on 24/11/2015 11:53:26

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

They will be shocked at the level of negative cynicism in this arena that makes the Daily Mail look like a cheerleader for positivity – as opposed to the constructive (dare I say positive) mindset that they expect to find in the Backyard Engineer's workshops they are seeking out. I'm sure they will find some fascinating and inspiring examples. However, they might take this microcosm as inspiration for a completely different type of program…..

The Jeremy Vine show on (BBC) Radio 2 is targeted at the misery guts who have finished their dose of the Daily Hell and want to winge and rant. This forum would benefit from a more positive outlook on life than that.

Try to look and think positively. If you spend your energy looking for problems you can probably find them. The Beeb is not perfect but creates some massively successful and enjoyable content. It's pretty good value compared to the likes of Sky etc.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

It seems RFD is an American TV channel, Now that would be indeed a totally out of world experience if they were able to make a Model Engineer programme. I would not want to be in front of their cameras, nor to do as they direct. The total difference is that they are not engineers nor even tyro engineers but purely programme makers and the amount of edited tape on the floor from what is taken must have a ratio of about 10 to 1.

I participated in a programme about recruiting and hours of filming and lads performing their tasks on guns and tanks and the like. What appeared on the broadcast programme was a 5 or 10 second portrayal of a young lad on the radio relaying gun commands all totally out of context to what was happening.. I made my feeling known but was told to keep quiet.

Everything is edited to death and to conform to timing of programme schedules and interest. No interest, no programme.

Clive

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

The Beeb have already aired an excellent blokes in sheds doing amazing things programme over 2 episodes – Speed Dreams – about guys making motorbikes to attempt speed records at Bonneville salt flats. A brilliant piece of broadcasting imho.

I was interviewed yesterday by a 19 year old journalism student. It was about waste and recycling but what stuck in my mind was when we were talking and she was supporting her arguments it was all backed up by comments from social media (Facebook) !!

The world is different now. In my youth knowledge was in books and had to be researched and collated. That very act made it stick in your head. Now it is a smart phone or tablet swipe away (providing you've got a signal!) and can be any random opinion from whatever deranged lunatic on the interweb. And is forgotten within hours. Knowledge at our finger tips producing disposable opinion.

I'm happy that I grew up with books and have retained that love, whether fact or fiction. They are not competing with the flashiest website or snappiest sound bite. They have substance and gravitas and promote the same in their reader.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

In my opinion the BBC is biased, they only put out what THEY think you want to watch & what they consider to be PC… if you want more accurate world facts look to AL Jazeera, or even CNN world news, they show news the BBC would consider to be anti establishment… & that just wouldn't do.

George.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I must say it's a real pleasure to read everyone moaning about someone else for a change.

I say just listen to Radio 4 and worry about the important things – like the impending downfall of Rob Tichenor.

Neil

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

Clive, a 10:1 cutting ratio would make some producers very happy bunnies!

I worked on the 1st Harry Potter for 11 months and they shot 2.6 MILLION feet of 35mm stock!

1000 feet runs 11 mins at 24fps so that equates to 476 HOURS on screen!

Mind you it felt like that when I waited for my 2nd Unit credit to roll up at the cast & crew premiere!

We did a lot of the Quidditch game stuff and then it was very much cutting edge, the sequence runs about 6 mins or so and it took 129 of us 3 WEEKS to do the first few seconds while all the bugs were ironed out on the motion control rigs and the various post prod CGI guys all squabbled over formats etc. All very good for my overtime though. All done now but Happy Days!

The Beeb work to much tighter budgets and are known for being REALLY parsimonious to crew , extras etc, not to mention treating the 'talent'; like s***! I did the lots of the BBC 2 Idents and we ere treated very badly by production in many respects considering the long hours.

Sorry to go a bit off topic.

Martin

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

I too do not want to waste time. With adverts. That is why almost everything I watch is recorded and I skip through the adverts. Adverts now take about 20 minutes out of every hour so I can watch an hour long program in 40 minutes.

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

That's interesting, DC. Imagine not having to edit out all the adverts and simply sitting back and enjoying the show, possibly even having downloaded it on BBC iPlayer (unlike the other channels?). 4OD and ITVPlayer prevent you from skipping forward through the ads (doh). Oh, wait a minute, click, click, whirr…

Back in the mid 1970s (when I lived in N Ireland), I was on BBC "Why Don't You (turn off the telly and go and…)..". That was a similar initiative – the production team were tasked to go and find (school aged) people who are engaged in interesting and creative alternatives to watching the box. I was 15 then. Of course, it's ironic(is it?) that we didn't have a TV in our family until several years later when I was 18 or 19.

In that (yes, heavily edited) episode I was interviewed and shown repairing and reselling lawnmowers as a hobby and as a means of funding my other interests. My first lathe was paid for from this activity. My first car was paid by selling 3 lawnmowers and the proceeds of my 3 regular gardening jobs. I enjoyed having the yellow fluid removed from me on a regular basis. As an "engineer" that possibly helped to socialise me….

Not quite so bothered about having appeared on (BBC) Songs Of Praise three times (orchestral violin) but that series could only have been a positive experience – religion apart (certainly not part of my life), we need to understand each other and learn to live together. It surely helps to try?

Murray

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

As Muzzer says, digital TV recorders appear to be under the control of the programme transmitters in a similar manner to DVD players where, unless you modify the DVD player itself, you are forced to watch their ads and warnings.

Twice recently, I have attempted to skip adverts only to find that the DVR won't allow me to do that. And a third programme, only allowed me to skip in chunks of a few seconds at a time.

Maybe the answer is to resurrect the VCR, that is, if it can be persuaded to record digital outputs.

I too have been on a couple of Songs of Praise shows. On one of them, our chorus master laid the law down and said that we were going to have a break as some of us had come straight from work without having had any tea. At which point we all walked off. There isn't much the BBC can do about that.

Those of you who remember Blaster Bates will remember the time when he was prepping a chimney before demolition when the Beeb turned up. When they thanked him for waiting for them, he replied that he didn't even know they were coming! I think he got it right.

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

[Involute CurveParticipant @involutecurve]

The BBC is commercial it just does it through the back door of the many other channels it owns, UK Gold, Drama, Dave all told 10 channels of this type are listed in the wiki, I don't mind that they do this, but I think the rest of the commercial station to have to compete with this publicly funded body is unfair, I don't know what the total revenue from the license is, but to make one good nature program a year it cant be much……..

If it where up to me, I would close the good old Beeb in the morning, and not give it a second thought…..

Shaun

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Haha – yes. The right solution isn't usually the easy one. But "not giving it a second thought" is surely often the root of the problem. If only the answers required no serious consideration. For instance on the front page of a comic….

Merry

[Douglas JohnstonParticipant @douglasjohnston98463]

I can assure you there will be no shortage of people wanting their 15 minutes of fame. Producers don't want sensible well informed people for this type of show, which is probably just as well since those people won't apply.

Doug

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

It saddens me to climb on the bandwagon, but read what the BBC did to my former employers and our Heritage Group!

They were researching for the Programme "The Engine that Powers the World"

The Company (with a LONG history of providing diesel power units for a wide variety of application) provided information, and permission for the use of Heritage film clips, (Stored in a film archive) was given.

Our Heritage Group provided additional information and were ready to support the on site research/filming.

At the last minute they cancelled, to go to an oil rig, so all our preparations were for nothing.

When the programme was aired, the film clips were used, but NO mention of the Company or even the Film Archive! Instead, a lot of time was devoted to just one of our customers!

No apology or explanation was forthcoming in response to the complaints made by the Chairman of our Heritage Group.

So, sadly, I have to agree with those who say "Don't touch it".

The truth will probably be distorted to suit some agenda that in no way reflects Model Engineers and their activities, and skills; to provide what is imagined to be "Good Television" for the uninitiated and ignorant.

Howard

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Possible inverse of Howard's experience above. Someone must have come past and recorded the sound of our church bells and decided to use them at the end of a (BBC) documentary unrelated to the village. Nobody would have known but they contacted us and offered £30 or a credit. We took the credit as we figured we'd never get a mention any other time and there is probably no other record of the bells in action even in private hands.

Meanwhile make the most of linear TV. 'Twill soon be gone. Make you own Youtube video and be sure to follow the rules: the presenter must be a fat old bloke who may know little of the subject and drones on and on when 10 seconds of picturing the item would tell the whole storey.

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

David Clark 1 – you will increasingly have to do this to take the adverts out of BBC broadcasts. Granted they aren't commercials, and granted they don't come during the programmes (except during news broadcasts and on Radio 3) but they are increasingly present. Progress, I suppose.

George

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

If you really wanted to have a doco made of model engineering, I don't think you could do better than someone like Peter Jackson(Lord of the Rings etc), and Weta Workshops, they know model engineering. A TV channel only knows(?) news.

Ian S C

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Ian S C on 25/11/2015 08:45:52:

Peter Jackson … they know model engineering.

Indeed, didn't he use duck tape to keep his brain in, in Bad Taste?

Neil

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

I think we may be getting a bit off track here. I am reminded of the late Lord Reith, the boss at the BBC in the 1920s. He might have been a bit eccentric in that made radio announcers wear evening dress at the appropriate time of day because they would be "heard in the homes of people who had dressed for dinner", but he was an absolute stickler for fairness – to the point he got in a row with the government of the day for making sure his news staff fairly reported the opinions of both sides in the general strike. He also believed that the duty of the broadcast media was to educate, inform and entertain. When he sees some of the ill-informed drivel on the BBC nowadays he must turn in his grave!

[SteveMParticipant @stevem36008]

Reading the comments posted on this thread there's clearly a lot wrong with the BBC. And I wouldn't argue with any of it, but to just tweak the balance back a little… They do some good stuff, probably in equal measure to the garbage. You've just got to be selective.

I don't watch TV much unless it involves Rugby or Cricket, but many thanks BBC for last night without any sport. The BBC-4 offering of Tankies (admittedly a repeat) followed by The Ecstacy of Wilko Johnson. Just brilliant.

So if you work for the BBC and you're reading this and you're involved in this project, please do it well. It can be done. And without a twenty-something vacuous presenter (a la Countryfile or One Show or any travel show). Just get a presenter who is both interested and interesting.

And I for one am looking forward to see what they come up with!

Steve

[Geoff TheasbyParticipant @geofftheasby]

Drifting off-topic, but I turned off the Wilko Johnson prog. because it was all 'arty' flashing images and talking heads. As an admirer of Dr Feelgood, understanding why Paul Weller's 'Jam' sounds like them, as do the Arctic Monkeys (From just up the road) it was a travesty of a programme which hardly touched the music, and wittered on about his miraculous recovery from a normally fatal cancer, although cancers do sometimes regress unaccountably, whilst offering nothing to replace it.

Geoff

[Rufus RoughcutParticipant @rufusroughcut]

All I'm Gunna say is How well the manager Jimmy Saville

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