Best material for a collet chuck

Best material for a collet chuck

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Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 26 total)
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  • #817945
    Grindstone Cowboy
    Participant
      @grindstonecowboy

      Having just taken advantage of Arc’s final sale to buy things I don’t really need, I want to make an ER11 collet chuck to screw onto the spindle of my Taig lathe. Assuming I can manage the machining of it, what would your recommendations be as regards a suitable material? Mild steel, cast iron, something a bit tougher?

      I intend to make most of it on the Boxford, but cut the taper on the Taig for maximum accuracy.

      And I’ll hopefully be able to pick up a bit of “whatever” at the Midlands show in a few weeks.

      Thanks,

      Rob

      #817949
      Hollowpoint
      Participant
        @hollowpoint

        EN1A bright mild steel should be fine.

        #817950
        John Haine
        Participant
          @johnhaine32865

          I’d suggest ER16 as it can hold up to 10mm. If you’re going to cut the taper on the Taig, something free cutting would be best.

          #817956
          Andrew Crow
          Participant
            @andrewcrow91475

            My choice would be EN24t, it machines well, but at the same time it’s tough and hard wearing.

            Andy

            #817980
            Grindstone Cowboy
            Participant
              @grindstonecowboy

              Thanks guys, I’ll see what’s available.

              John – You are probably correct. My excuse (rapidly cobbled together) is that: a) I’d probably do anything larger than 8mm on the Boxford with ER32 collets, b) Arc had an ER11 collet nut still in stock, and c) I didn’t think of it. 🙂

              Thanks again.

              Rob

              #817988
              bernard towers
              Participant
                @bernardtowers37738

                My ER16 ones for the taig tailstock turret were from EN16 and seem to stand up well.IMG_5945

                #818036
                Grindstone Cowboy
                Participant
                  @grindstonecowboy

                  They look good, Bernard, I’ll be happy if my attempt approaches anything like those.

                  I’m assuming that if I use EN24T or EN16, there’s no point in attempting amateur heat-treatment as there will undoubtedly be some distotortion that would need a toolpost grinder to correct? So best to leave “as machined”?

                  Great temptation to make yet another purchase from Arc, but realistically, how many different types of collet do I need?

                  Rob

                  #818050
                  Nealeb
                  Participant
                    @nealeb

                    One more than you have…

                    #818053
                    bernard towers
                    Participant
                      @bernardtowers37738

                      You have to think about how much use they will get and if you keep it clean and lubed it should be ok.

                      #818054
                      Neil Lickfold
                      Participant
                        @neillickfold44316

                        P20 die steel is also a good choice. There is P20+S,(Has added Sulphur) is a nominal 30Rc hardness and is a lot easier to drill etc than the regular P20 of the same hardness. The P20 +S comes up quite nice and shiny with sharp cutters, and drills ok, but you need fairly low drilling surface speeds with HSS drills. Around 12 to 15 m/min surface speeds with coolant. Cutting dry or with a dab of oil, then reduce the speed to 8m/min. So a 7mm drill speed with water soluble oil would be in the range of  max 650 rpm to 550 rpm wet.  Dry with a dab of oil now and then or coolant now and then, I would recommend only 280-350 rpm.

                        The other choices I would suggest is 4340 or 4140 , or the body of a large capscrew is all good pre hardened stable materials that will last a long time.

                        They can be drilled and turned on a Taig type lathe. I am not sure about threading on the Taig lathes, as I have not done any thread cutting on my Taig type lathe. I don’t have the threading accessories for it.

                        Mild steel does also work, but they dont last as long as the harder material ones do.

                        I have quite a few ER11 holders, made from either M14 capscrew bodies or from P20 Steel. Mine have a 12mm body or an ER20 taper with the ER11 on the front. I set up drills and centre drills and milling cutters in them. So I change the holder with the tool in it already set. I have the slimline castellated nut with the fine thread. The other option is the Hex nut.

                        On my lathe ER11 adapter, I have an M8x1 thread inside, for part length stops that can be handy to have at times. On the lathe one I made, it has a 16mm shank body. It will fit the MyfordS7 or the Taig lathe 4jaw chuck.

                        Neil

                        #818060
                        Fulmen
                        Participant
                          @fulmen

                          Hardening doesn’t automatically mean glass hard, and steel like EN24 isn’t intended for such applications. What you can do is to rough it out, then harden and temper to a still machinable state before finishing.

                          #818088
                          David George 1
                          Participant
                            @davidgeorge1

                            I would agree with EN24 T steel it is tough and stable but still resonable to machine. The other option is to have a hardening steel maybe silver steel or EN32 case hardening steel but these would need grinding to finnish after hardening and the thread then becomes suspect. I have made a new spindle for my lathe from EN24T and it is perfect and stablewith no flex etc.

                            David

                             

                            #818090
                            Fulmen
                            Participant
                              @fulmen

                              From what I can tell EN24T is around 850MPa which is a pretty decent all round material. I haven’t worked with it, but it should be pretty much the same as 34CrNiMo6. With heat treatment you can probably go as high as 11-1200MPa and still have something that cuts well. But you’ll want to rough it out before you do that.

                              #818144
                              Grindstone Cowboy
                              Participant
                                @grindstonecowboy

                                Thanks for the extra info. I’m thinking the best approach will be to do most of the machining on the Boxford, including all the threading, and leave enough material to just need a clean-up cut on the taper which will be done on the Taig – I have a compound slide attachment, but no thread-cutting abilities on there. I would hope that the tolerances would make any minor mismatch between collet nut thread and the taper irrelevant.

                                Rob

                                #818153
                                Neil Lickfold
                                Participant
                                  @neillickfold44316

                                  Out of curiosity, How are  you going to be holding your ER11 collect chuck on your Taig lathe? When I made mine, I made them finished, so the thread is concentric to the 8 deg per side taper of the ER  taper. I have found that if the thread for the nut is not concentric to the inner 8 deg taper, it can cause runnout issues with the parts etc.  So I hold mine in the 4 jaw chuck on the 16mm shank, and indicate true the inner 8 deg taper.  Sometimes I will indicate the part diameter true , but usually I indicate the inner taper. I made mine with the 13mm fine thread, M13x0.75 mm pitch. Buying very good collets long term saves time and money. I have made a few of my own for specific projects and they have worked very well.

                                  #818161
                                  Grindstone Cowboy
                                  Participant
                                    @grindstonecowboy

                                    Hi Neil

                                    I was planning on making it so that it will screw onto the spindle nose. However, from what you say about concentricity of the thread to the taper, I’m starting to think this wasn’t such a good idea – as mentioned, I’d be cutting the thread and roughing out the taper on my Boxford and finishing the taper on the Taig.

                                    I only have a 3 jaw chuck for the Taig unfortunately.

                                    #818179
                                    Clive Brown 1
                                    Participant
                                      @clivebrown1

                                      I’d consider making the whole item on the Boxford. After machining the 3/4″ Taig thread, 2nd op. work, ie taper and nut thread, can be done on by mounting on a threaded mandrel that has been machined on, and not removed from, the Boxford. This assumes that the Boxford has both metric and imperial screwcutting capabilitiy.

                                      #818194
                                      Grindstone Cowboy
                                      Participant
                                        @grindstonecowboy

                                        Clive – That’s an excellent idea which had not ocurred to me, thanks. I do have the 127/100 tooth gear for metric threads but have so far not needed to use it.

                                        #818235
                                        Vic
                                        Participant
                                          @vic

                                          Just out of interest, I’ve just ordered a C8 ER11A 100L Chuck on Amazon for £7.29.

                                          #819076
                                          old mart
                                          Participant
                                            @oldmart

                                            I would also go for the en24t, it is chrome moly and stronger than mild without being too difficult to machine. You would not need to do any heat treatment.

                                            #819101
                                            Grindstone Cowboy
                                            Participant
                                              @grindstonecowboy

                                              Thanks again, chaps, will try and get a piece at the show.

                                              Rob

                                              #819102
                                              ChrisLH
                                              Participant
                                                @chrislh

                                                I made my Myford spindle nose / ER 25 adapter from En 1 very mild steel. It works OK, hasn’t picked up on any of the mating surfaces and is no less stiff than would be a similar item made from any of the unfriendly steels mentioned above. It is, of course, a lot weaker than they but I don’t plan to subject it to loads that would break or distort it because those loads would have probably broken or bent something else first. I am careful not to ding it though.

                                                #819134
                                                Howard Lewis
                                                Participant
                                                  @howardlewis46836

                                                  I’ve made various ER collet holders from mild steel, and so far they show no signs of wear.

                                                  After all the only parts likely to see much motion are the clamp nut (Which I buy) and the matching thread, Relative speed and distance for the collets in the tapers are slow and short, so wear is unlikely.

                                                  For hobby use, they are not going to be used for 40 or more hours a week.

                                                  With regard to the tapers, to minimise the risk of eccentricity, I would finish them in the Taig, since this is the machine on which they are going to be used.

                                                  The release groove in the collets, needs to be slightly proud of the end of the holder, to ensure maximum clamping and ease of release when the clamp nut is unscrewed.

                                                  Howard

                                                  #819149
                                                  bernard towers
                                                  Participant
                                                    @bernardtowers37738

                                                    The ER number is the diameter to aim for according to my spec sheet. ie er16 has a 16mmmouth dimension at the largest part of the taper.

                                                    #820587
                                                    Howard Lewis
                                                    Participant
                                                      @howardlewis46836

                                                      I am under the impression that the thread size, for a given collet range is the number of the next up.

                                                      i.e. 25 x 1,5  for ER20, 32 x 1.5 for ER25, 40 x 1.5 for ER32.

                                                      Occasionally, I do have a bit of trouble engaging or disengaging the release slot from the eccentric lip in the clamp nut, but that seems to caused by minute variations between the various nuts.

                                                      With regard to material, have made at least eight bodies for ER20, ER25, and ER32 collets from mild steel, and so far, having bought the clamp nuts, have had no problems due to to wear.

                                                      But my screwcutting is not likely to be high precision!

                                                      Howard

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