wire bender

This topic has 28 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 11 September 2019 at 20:31 by not done it yet.

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7 September 2019 at 14:46 #427902
duncan webster 1
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@duncanwebster1
The bits of wire in the photo are connectors for track circuiting our 5"g track. They are made from 0.8mm stainless MIG wire. I need a couple of hundred for phase 2, and my wrist already hurts from making 10 off with round nose pliers. Anyone know where I can get a little gadget to form the 3mm diameter loops on the ends? The large radius arc comes naturally from being supplied on a coil, and the small angle bend (to get the ends in line) is easy enough with pliers as it's only a small rotation

Edited By duncan webster on 07/09/2019 14:46:58
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7 September 2019 at 14:46 #33450
duncan webster 1
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@duncanwebster1
7 September 2019 at 15:13 #427904
Former Member
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@formermember19781
[This posting has been removed]
7 September 2019 at 15:13 #427905
Former Member
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@formermember19781
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7 September 2019 at 15:13 #427906
Former Member
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@formermember19781
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7 September 2019 at 15:26 #427909
duncan webster 1
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@duncanwebster1
They are for linking the rails together in track circuits. Copper is a no-no, it corrodes like mad due to galvanic action against the aluminium rails (don't ask how I know). We've tried aluminium wire, but it is too soft, it relaxes under the bolts and comes loose, and is easily damaged giving rise to faults
7 September 2019 at 15:37 #427912
Ron Laden
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@ronladen17547
Duncan with so many to do would it not be a good idea to make a tool, need only be simple something like a small block (even a piece of timber) with a dowel pin or similar fitted and a pivoting lever along side which has another dowel. You place the wire between the dowels and pull the wire around to form the loop if you see what I mean.

Edited By Ron Laden on 07/09/2019 15:38:09

Edited By Ron Laden on 07/09/2019 15:51:02
7 September 2019 at 15:53 #427915
Frank Gorse
Participant
@frankgorse
Duncan,in theory it should be the aluminium being attacked by the copper as copper is much higher up the galvanic hierarchy than aluminium – ally boats,particularly in tropical seawater,suffer terrible damage if painted with anti- fouling containing copper. Perhaps there’s something else going on there.?
7 September 2019 at 16:02 #427916
duncan webster 1
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@duncanwebster1
Frank, perhaps loose language, something corrodes like mad, we don't have the same problem with SS.

Ron, I want to buy a tool, got far too many other jobs on the go to start making one, I just need pointing at where to get it

Edited By duncan webster on 07/09/2019 16:03:41

Edited By duncan webster on 07/09/2019 16:04:16
7 September 2019 at 16:15 #427920
DC31k
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@dc31k
Posted by duncan webster on 07/09/2019 16:02:20:

I want to buy a tool, got far too many other jobs on the go to start making one, I just need pointing at where to get it

Put 'wire bender' into Google images. There is one common design that seems to be sold by many people, so make your choice of seller.

If there are many to do, stacking three or more wires on top of each other and pulling the loops all at once will speed things up. This is how small reinforcing bar is bent.
7 September 2019 at 16:41 #427924
peak4
Participant
@peak4
Duncan, can't help with the bender, but as regards the stainless/aluminium interface, make sure you coat it liberally with wax or something similar to keep out any moisture.
As a Landrover owner, having vehicles with aluminium alloy panels, I can assure you stainless and ali are not happy bedfellows. The alloy eventually turns to white dust wherever it's had a stainless nut and bolt through.

Bill
7 September 2019 at 20:45 #427963
Ian P
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@ianp
Posted by peak4 on 07/09/2019 16:41:02:

Duncan, can't help with the bender, but as regards the stainless/aluminium interface, make sure you coat it liberally with wax or something similar to keep out any moisture.
As a Landrover owner, having vehicles with aluminium alloy panels, I can assure you stainless and ali are not happy bedfellows. The alloy eventually turns to white dust wherever it's had a stainless nut and bolt through.

Bill

+1 that SS and ali in contact with each other are not a good idea especially if there is any water involved such as the British climate!

For most SS fixings that I put in aluminium I use Tef-Gel. It is weird stuff that seems to be a mixture of grease and glue and its difficult to clean off things including fingers and hands, I have not found a solvent for it so it stays on threads and reduces the amount of galvanic corrosion.

Ian P
8 September 2019 at 00:59 #427994
Paul Lousick
Participant
@paullousick59116
Duncan

Have not seen a cheap shop bought wire bender but lots of simple benders shown on Youtube.

Paul

**LINK**

**LINK**
8 September 2019 at 07:49 #428001
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by duncan webster on 07/09/2019 14:46:22:

The bits of wire in the photo are connectors for track circuiting our 5"g track. They are made from 0.8mm stainless MIG wire. I need a couple of hundred for phase 2, and my wrist already hurts from making 10 off with round nose pliers. Anyone know where I can get a little gadget to form the 3mm diameter loops on the ends? The large radius arc comes naturally from being supplied on a coil, and the small angle bend (to get the ends in line) is easy enough with pliers as it's only a small rotation

.

Two pins [neatly beheaded round nails] in a plank is surely all you need to form the loops.

Make them in groups: Then use angled wire cutters [or perhaps a saw, or a triangular file] to separate the lengths.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 08/09/2019 07:53:25
8 September 2019 at 09:34 #428012
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by Michael Gilligan on 08/09/2019 07:49:42:

.

Two pins [neatly beheaded round nails] in a plank is surely all you need to form the loops.

.

Hang the expense !

It might be better to use five pins, equispaced on a pitch circle

[ less wrapping around each pin would then be required ]

MichaelG.
8 September 2019 at 09:56 #428016
Brian Oldford
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@brianoldford70365
Forget the track circuits and use axle counters instead.
8 September 2019 at 11:03 #428027
duncan webster 1
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@duncanwebster1
I've tried just bending round a nail, it works with copper, but not with SS, too springy. Using pliers you have to grip the wire and then sort of roll it along a flat metal surface. I'm going to try something more akin to a pipe bender, the bending pin on the proprietary ones looks too big. If it works I'll get back

We've looked into axle counters, or just short lengths of track circuit to act as interrupts, in fact the control board has the facility to do that, but can't figure out how to allow for trains being removed/added mid section (either at the normal access via swing link, or just lifted off/on) without a manual intervention. Experiment shows that magnet on the truck and reed switch on the track works well as a train detector, not sure how we'd make an axle detector, a very short length of track circuit isn't all that reliable, the wheel rail contact is not that good with steel wheels on aluminium, our logic allows for that, the section has to be clear for 5 seconds before the signal clears.

On the corrosion issue, we've had SS fishplates and bolts for quite a few years without any issue, and the first phase of signals has been in for nearly as long, Land Rover men have to contend with (road) salt water, perhaps that is more aggressive
8 September 2019 at 11:47 #428040
Michael Gilligan
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@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by duncan webster on 08/09/2019 11:03:48:

I've tried just bending round a nail, it works with copper, but not with SS, too springy. Using pliers you have to grip the wire and then sort of roll it along a flat metal surface. I'm going to try something more akin to a pipe bender, the bending pin on the proprietary ones looks too big. If it works I'll get back

.

Good luck, Duncan

MichaelG.
9 September 2019 at 00:31 #428140
ANDY CAWLEY
Participant
@andycawley24921
Life would be easier if you were to use annealed or soft stainless wire.

Edited By ANDY CAWLEY on 09/09/2019 00:32:43
9 September 2019 at 09:41 #428168
Ian Skeldon 2
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@ianskeldon2
Not cheap but This would solve your problem Duncan.
9 September 2019 at 09:47 #428172
Former Member
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@formermember19781
[This posting has been removed]
9 September 2019 at 10:42 #428186
duncan webster 1
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@duncanwebster1
Annealed wire: obvious, why didn't I think of that? Just shows how useful this forum can be, I've ordered some. In the meantime, I've found a way of churning them out in welding wire, might be even easier in soft. It's a 2 stage process using a punch and dies, first op pushes the wire into a slot to form an open U shape, second step uses the same punch to round the ends, the backstop prevents the loop being pushed away as the punch closes the loop. I'm going to make a better die for the first op, I don't think the little cast iron vice would last very long. The piece of wood in the first picture supports the wire with the large radius horizontal so the loops are vertical if you see what I mean

Thanks to all who replied.

Edited By duncan webster on 09/09/2019 10:43:37
9 September 2019 at 11:18 #428201
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
Splash out £1.49 and solve your problems.

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 09/09/2019 11:19:03
9 September 2019 at 11:34 #428209
not done it yet
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@notdoneityet
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 09/09/2019 11:18:24:

Splash out £1.49 and solve your problems.

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 09/09/2019 11:19:03

Steady on Neil! That is actually £2.99 of Duncan’s hard earned cash! Shipping is £1.50.
9 September 2019 at 11:49 #428210
Paul Lousick
Participant
@paullousick59116
Special pliers for forming round ends on wire are called "Looping pliers" which are similar to round nose pliers but have parallel jaws of different diameters. Lots of difefrent ones on ebay. And these ones called One step looping pliers. Not sure where you get them

Paul

**LINK**

Edited By Paul Lousick on 09/09/2019 11:50:58
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