Odd sleeve

This topic has 21 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 10 January 2020 at 17:28 by old mart.

Viewing 22 posts - 1 through 22 (of 22 total)

Author

Posts
4 January 2020 at 21:15 #444672
David Canham
Participant
@davidcanham77137
Hi people,

I was sorting through some taper shank drills and sleeves in a workshop that i help to maintain. I found them in an old filling cabinet in the corner of the works.

There were some good drills in the assortment, some up to 2" in diameter and either Dormer or Presto so worth a few quid.

Then i came across the sleeve as pictured. At first i thought it was full of crud but it actually has a flat section inside the taper.

I have never seen that before and so i thought i would share it with you clever people.

So, is it a drill sleeve or something else.

Cheers, David.
Advert

4 January 2020 at 21:15 #27046
David Canham
Participant
@davidcanham77137
4 January 2020 at 21:20 #444675
Alan Waddington 2
Participant
@alanwaddington2
Can’t provide an answer, but iv’e also got one floating about in my drill drawer.
4 January 2020 at 21:23 #444676
old mart
Participant
@oldmart
Its made in Iowa, so it could be anything. I notice the name is "use em up", I wonder if it is designed to salvage scrap MT3 tapers by grinding a flat on them? It could be worth asking on The home shop machinist forum.

Edited By old mart on 04/01/2020 21:25:16
4 January 2020 at 21:28 #444678
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
The clue’s in the name … it allows obsolete Blacksmith’s Drills [‘Armstrong Taper’ I think] to be fitted in a Morse Tapered machine.

MichaelG.
4 January 2020 at 21:53 #444680
David Canham
Participant
@davidcanham77137
Thanks Michael,

I think i'll keep this a paper weight if as you say it has an Armstrong taper.

David
4 January 2020 at 23:37 #444691
ega
Participant
@ega
Posted by old mart on 04/01/2020 21:23:35:

Its made in Iowa, so it could be anything. I notice the name is "use em up", I wonder if it is designed to salvage scrap MT3 tapers by grinding a flat on them? It could be worth asking on The home shop machinist forum.

Edited By old mart on 04/01/2020 21:25:16

Plus 1 for this. I think the idea was that it would allow the use of a drill with a broken off tang.
5 January 2020 at 00:16 #444697
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Looks like I was wrong

**LINK**

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-and-history/morse-taper-flat-side-114089/

MichaelG.

.

Should have paid more attention to the legend ‘3 to 4’

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 05/01/2020 00:19:31
5 January 2020 at 02:40 #444701
John Reese
Participant
@johnreese12848
Posted by old mart on 04/01/2020 21:23:35:

Its made in Iowa, so it could be anything. I notice the name is "use em up", I wonder if it is designed to salvage scrap MT3 tapers by grinding a flat on them? It could be worth asking on The home shop machinist forum.

Edited By old mart on 04/01/2020 21:25:16

Careful! Some Iowegians get testy over stuff tile that. If it came from Iowa it was probably made by Collis. They were called Use EM Up sleeves. When the tang twisted off a drill or the taper got too messed up to hold in its socket you could grind a flat on the side of the drill shank until it fit in the Use EM UP socket. I am 82 and have only seen maybe 6. Not common anymore.
5 January 2020 at 09:26 #444720
Clive Foster
Participant
@clivefoster55965
Having sorted out what it is the next question must be how did they make a sufficiently accurate D section taper back in those days?

Obviously you can't ream it to size and broaching sounds difficult. I'd cut the side off a proper taper and weld or silver solder the flat on but thats very home shop guy.

Clive
5 January 2020 at 11:00 #444738
DiogenesII
Participant
@diogenesii
..Broached? ..is there a wedge-slot at the back? ..it looks like one of those processes that sprang from their gun industry..
5 January 2020 at 11:27 #444744
ega
Participant
@ega
From old Buck and Hickman catalogue:

I'm afraid this doesn't answer Clive Foster's interesting question.

The reference to "Use-em-up" Type suggests that this was a generic item; in a perfect world such things would not be necessary!
5 January 2020 at 14:45 #444783
David Canham
Participant
@davidcanham77137
Hi DiogenesII, how indeed were they made. I am back at the works tomorrow and will see if there is a wedge slot at the back.
5 January 2020 at 15:10 #444787
old mart
Participant
@oldmart
I would bet on there being a slot in the back, why, because there is light showing in the photograph.

Incidentally, the tang on Morse tapers is not intended to provide drive torque, that's what the taper is for.

I would be interested to find out how that tapered hole with a flat was produced, magic maybe.

Edited By old mart on 05/01/2020 15:12:46

Edited By old mart on 05/01/2020 15:15:22
5 January 2020 at 17:02 #444811
Nicholas Farr
Participant
@nicholasfarr14254
Hi, yet another catalogue entry below, this is a 1963 edition.

Regards Nick.
5 January 2020 at 17:25 #444815
Nicholas Farr
Participant
@nicholasfarr14254
Posted by old mart on 05/01/2020 15:10:12:

I would bet on there being a slot in the back, why, because there is light showing in the photograph.

Incidentally, the tang on Morse tapers is not intended to provide drive torque, that's what the taper is for.

I would be interested to find out how that tapered hole with a flat was produced, magic maybe.

Edited By old mart on 05/01/2020 15:12:46

Edited By old mart on 05/01/2020 15:15:22

Hi, probably ~~a forgery~~ forged and then ground to size.

Regards Nick.
5 January 2020 at 18:06 #444826
old mart
Participant
@oldmart
I still cannot see how that hole was produced, grinding would not do it as there are no rads on the interface between the taper and the flat.
5 January 2020 at 18:12 #444828
DiogenesII
Participant
@diogenesii
I think Nick has it.. Hot forging in a die using a mandrel of the correct shape?
5 January 2020 at 18:20 #444831
DiogenesII
Participant
@diogenesii
Similar to here, at 12 minutes in – different shaped part, of course, but same principle.

apologies, tried to embed but couldn't find sizing option..
5 January 2020 at 19:29 #444853
old mart
Participant
@oldmart
Yes, I cannot see any alternative to the hot forging of the bore, followed by conventional turning and grinding of the outside. It probably doesn't matter if the taper is not perfect, after all it is going to house damaged tapers anyway.

The slot would probably have to be extra long if some tangs were missing.

Edited By old mart on 05/01/2020 19:31:55
7 January 2020 at 18:25 #445143
David Canham
Participant
@davidcanham77137
A few new photo's of the sleeve to have a look at. I did polish the end to see if there was a join between the internal diameter and the flat section but there is nothing obvious.

The drift slot is also longer than a standard sleeve's slot.

Note the hole in the side, most odd.

All the best,

David.
10 January 2020 at 17:28 #445733
old mart
Participant
@oldmart
The little hole is a mystery. I had not thought of the possibility of a flat sided piece fitted in the bore. Certainly not brazed or silver soldered as that would show up after you polished the end. I recon that we will never know the full story unless a NOS one turns up for close study.
Author

Posts