ML7 left to run for 72hrs accidentally – what to check?

ML7 left to run for 72hrs accidentally – what to check?

Home Forums Manual machine tools ML7 left to run for 72hrs accidentally – what to check?

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  • #14154
    William Ayerst
    Participant
      @williamayerst55662
      #523154
      William Ayerst
      Participant
        @williamayerst55662

        An unfortunate set of circumstances meant that my ML7 was accidentally turned on at the weekend and has been running since. It has been kept well lubricated before this incident and was running without anything on the spindle.

        I turned it off as soon as I noticed and did a quick check – the oilers are empty, but there doesn't appear to be any play in the main spindle. The lathe itself was not hot, although the motor (Metro-Vick original?) was. No bad smells or obvious problems, but suddenly, I'm worried about everything – is this a new issue, or is this just manifested? Either way:

        • The belt from the motor to countershaft is a little frayed around the edges
        • There were a few black oil drips underneath the lead screw gears in the drip tray, and kept finding little amounts of the same in areas of the headstock – including the oil nipple for the countershaft.
        • The countershaft itself has a good deal of resistance to turning – i.e. there is no appreciable difference in difficulty turning it with or without the eccentric lever engaged whilst the lathe is middle gear that said, my thoughts were that if the countershaft if anything should be loose rather than tight if it was effected by this extended running period and I can't remember if I ever checked it.

        Is there anything else I should be checking or doing (other than obviously taking measures to ensure this doesn't happen again!)

        Many thanks!

        Edited By William Ayerst on 27/01/2021 22:40:47

        #523175
        JohnF
        Participant
          @johnf59703

          William, never heard of it before and admittedly not an ideal thing to do but you seem to have checked everything you can and no ill effects so stop worrying !

          Although the main bearing oil cups were empty, when there is no load on the spindle it will retain and oil film and if this had broken down assuming your machine has the white metal bearings they would have "run" and you could not miss this. Hot motor – only to be expected but clearly OK – no bad smells.

          It really goes to show the longevity built into these machines

          John

          #523196
          William Ayerst
          Participant
            @williamayerst55662

            Thanks John – I guess the only thing that feels a bit strange is the stiffness of the counter shaft, should it have some resistance or should it be easy to spin?

            #523199
            Brian Wood
            Participant
              @brianwood45127

              William,

              I think the countershsft bearings will be showing up a lack of lubrication as a result of the prolonged running, other than that the lathe itself has come through with everything operational as it should.

              So, a bit of oil where it is needed and away you go again

              Regards

              Brian

              #523202
              larry phelan 1
              Participant
                @larryphelan1

                Your electric meter ???????

                Just asking !cheeky

                #523208
                Swarf, Mostly!
                Participant
                  @swarfmostly

                  Hi there, William,

                  I hope that your ML7 has not suffered any irreparable damage.

                  It sounds as though you need to install a motor starter that incorporates no-volt-release.

                  Best regards,

                  Swarf, Mostly!

                  #523211
                  Tony Wright 1
                  Participant
                    @tonywright1

                    Just for fun how many revolutions do you estimate it ran ? 😂

                    #523214
                    Oldiron
                    Participant
                      @oldiron

                      Would be interested to know how it was left running for that long. I hope it has no detrimental long term effects.

                      regards

                      #523224
                      Hollowpoint
                      Participant
                        @hollowpoint
                        Posted by Tony Wright 1 on 28/01/2021 10:06:11:

                        Just for fun how many revolutions do you estimate it ran ? 😂

                        3 days = 4320 minutes

                        Typical lathe motor runs at 1450rpm

                        1450 x 4320 = 6,264,000

                        😳

                        #523232
                        J Hancock
                        Participant
                          @jhancock95746

                          Not to worry, the national debt increased by approx £360,000,000 over that period of time.

                          #523242
                          Pete Rimmer
                          Participant
                            @peterimmer30576

                            I would not worry overly much. If any of the bearings had suffered lubrication failure you would have come back to a seized spindle or smouldering mess.

                            All I'd expect is a little bit extra normal wear. Not so much of that either since plain bearings are happier once warmed up a bit.

                            #523243
                            ega
                            Participant
                              @ega

                              Would some moly benefit the counter shaft bearings?

                              #523271
                              Ady1
                              Participant
                                @ady1

                                No load running so it should be fine after a pint of refreshing lube

                                #523272
                                William Ayerst
                                Participant
                                  @williamayerst55662

                                  Moly?

                                  I'm happy that no major harm done – if it's been used for an hour a week since it was built (1952) that little escapade has only added half a percent of the total running time. Hopefully!

                                  A no-volt release sounds like a perfect plan, as well as a start/stop that's not attached to the wall socket. I have a modern power cable, but no control box. Do you have any recommendations?

                                  What happened was, I was working around the house and accidentally tripped the breaker for the workshop by nudging a box in the under-stairs cupboard. After some time went to the garage to get tools to cut some firewood – after messing around with a regular saw, I decided to use my chopsaw – which didn't work. I assumed it was broken. I then tried the lights, and they didn't work. And then tried the lamp over the lathe, which also failed. I swapped plugs around and inadvertently plugged the lathe into the lamp socket (which was turned on at the wall, but with the lamp switch itself turned off and the power still cut) and vice versa.

                                  When the power came back on after I reset the breaker, instead of power being supplied to the turned-off light, it got supplied to the lathe!

                                  Since I've now got all the easily removable parts off to transport the lathe (another story!) I wonder if it might be a good opportunity to give it a clean. i.e. the lead screw and gears inside the headstock are a bit grimy – is it a good idea? I'm assuming white spirit and a soft brush, and then a reapplication of the relevant oil/fluid once dry?

                                  #523278
                                  J Hancock
                                  Participant
                                    @jhancock95746

                                    One vital bit of information missing.

                                    Did you leave the lathe with the drive belt tensioned (bad) or 'loose '(good). ?

                                    That , may have saved your headstock bearings.

                                    #523290
                                    ega
                                    Participant
                                      @ega

                                      Not ecstasy but molybdenum disulphide.

                                      NB my question mark as I don't know the composition of ML7 countershaft bearings.

                                      #523291
                                      Tony Pratt 1
                                      Participant
                                        @tonypratt1
                                        Posted by ega on 28/01/2021 14:55:02:

                                        Not ecstasy but molybdenum disulphide.

                                        NB my question mark as I don't know the composition of ML7 countershaft bearings.

                                        Original countershaft bearings are Phosphor Bronze.

                                        Tony

                                        #523305
                                        Alan Donovan
                                        Participant
                                          @alandonovan54394

                                          Hi William.

                                          My view would be that 72 hours of 'no load' running on a Myford is not really a problem, especially as you normally keep it well lubricated. The key thing here is that it was 'no load' running. These machines suffer much worse abuse in industry and survive.

                                          Tony Pratt 1 mentioned that the countershaft bearings were phosphor bronze, that is correct but the original fit were sintered bronze bearings (which are porous to retain some of the oil) manufactured by 'Oilite'. A 'trawl' of the internet suggests that these bearings (in imperial sizes) are still available, should they be needed.

                                          Best regards Alan.

                                          #523382
                                          Bazyle
                                          Participant
                                            @bazyle

                                            In theory a smart meter monitor display would alert you to this sort of thing.

                                            #523411
                                            Chris Gunn
                                            Participant
                                              @chrisgunn36534

                                              William, it sounds that it could be unlikely that this could happen again. Just in case you could feed the lathe through a timer with just the off flag set at the latest time you are likely to need it. the timer will switch it off.

                                              I adopted this for my compressor, I used to switch it on, and if it was not actually running. i would head inside leaving it on. Later in the evening the lights would slightly flicker when it started up again. The problem was solved by the timer.

                                              Chris Gunn

                                              #523414
                                              not done it yet
                                              Participant
                                                @notdoneityet

                                                The problem was solved by the timer.

                                                But do buy a substantial timer. The lesser ones will fail with fairly low inductive loads, even though they will cope with 3kW resistive.

                                                #523415
                                                Nicholas Farr
                                                Participant
                                                  @nicholasfarr14254

                                                  Hi, many years ago, I had a Baby Belling oven with the two hot plates on top. One night when cooking my evening meal, I nodded off to sleep in my armchair, but later woke and though my tea must be ready, it was, ready to go straight into the bin, as it was done to a dried up black crisp that you would even give to your worst enemy. This I thought was not a good thing to repeat as it could have lead to a serious fire, not to mention a wasted meal, so I did exactly as Chris Gunn has suggested and got a plug-in timer. Can't ever remember falling to sleep though while the oven was on after I started using the timer, but I felt safer all the same.

                                                  Regards Nick.

                                                  #523425
                                                  Mike Poole
                                                  Participant
                                                    @mikepoole82104

                                                    This is a classic scenario where an NVR (no volt release) motor starter would have been useful, imagine if you had not returned for a week or twosad

                                                    Mike

                                                    #523427
                                                    Chris Crew
                                                    Participant
                                                      @chriscrew66644

                                                      Well, for my 'two-pennyworth' I find it incredible that anyone would want a machine that just plugs straight into a wall socket with nothing in between. Small No-Volt Release devices are cheap as are start and stop buttons. All my machines, both single-phase and three phase run with converters, are equipped with NVR devices but that's only me.

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