Smart and brown opinions? or other 3phase machines

[jason spencerParticipant @jasonspencer41535]

Because I've had to get a rotary phase converter to run my new mill I've decided that i'd sell my seig/red+black C4 lathe with micro mill and replace it with a 3 phase machine to make extra use of my phase converter.

Honestly, its not just man logic it does make sense!

I've been drawn to a Smart and brown model A with full traceable history since new, its a 415v 3phase machine so suits me perfectly powerwise.

Whats the general thoughts on these machines? Seems to be nice with a built in oil system etc etc. Some say that they're a notch above some other old english stuff, however I don't know much about them.

does anyone have any experience of them? Any general thoughts/opinions?

[jason spencerParticipant @jasonspencer41535]

[JohnFParticipant @johnf59703]

Hi Jason, I worked on a model 1024 for several years in the 60's and they are a first class toolroom lathe — second to none maybe? I also used a model A occasionally also a superb lathe but of course not as large or powerful as the 1024 [10" swing & 24" between cts] and with less metal removal capability but for home use this is not always a priority.

Both are capable of holding very close limits to 0.001"or better but you must allow for the fact that these are now quite old machines nevertheless we have a 1024 bought from the company I worked for and it is still very accurate and with a little care it is still possible to keep to a thou or less.

If a model A will cover your needs and the machine is in good order–pay particular attention to the bed and headstock bearings, try under power if you can I would go ahead.

Just my thoughts John

[jason spencerParticipant @jasonspencer41535]

Thanks for that John. I don't need a large machine, A model A is overkill but better to have a machine bigger than ones needs though.

Have you cut any metric threads on yours? I've been in touch with the new owners of smart and brown, they said they can provide gearing to enable metric cuts if needed.

For £800 it seems to make sense, especially when priced against a super 7 etc.

[JohnFParticipant @johnf59703]

No not on the S & B I also have an Emco Sper 11 and its much easier to use this for the few I have to cut. Its always a bit of a chore cutting metric on an imperial machine.

At £800 I recon its a bargain providing it is in good condition for age.

John

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

The Smart & Brown Model A is indeed a machine of the very highest quality. Its also enormously heavy for its capacity, approaching 3/4 of a ton, so moving it isn't a task to undertake casually. Massive bed, saddle, apron and slides make it a formidably effective and accurate metal shifting device. Its a completely different world to the usual 4 1/2 inch centre height machines and frankly one far easier to live in. None of the fiddling so often needed to get things just so to do really accurate work on lighter machines. If its in anything approaching decent condition tenths thou tolerances are almost casual routine. Saddle travel dial as standard which is a great help and pretty much makes DRO systems redundant.

Disadvantages are a rather small bore spindle with simple screw thread chuck mount and rather limited threading capability and power feed ranges. Single standard, either imperial or metric so you will need to mess with change wheels to do "wrong standard" threads. I believe that, as with the 1024, you can get suitable gears off the shelf from the likes of HPC should you need them. Plain bearing spindle so top speed is around 1450 which can be limiting if you want to exploit carbide tools.

Ok I'm biased as I have its bigger brother, a 1024 VSL which is about as good a machine as you can get. I'm really glad I didn't buy a Hardinge!

Clive

[Max ToleranceParticipant @maxtolerance69251]

I have owned a model "A" for thirty years or more they are an excellent machine and will hold to fine limits if in good condition. The headstock bearings are bronze in a tapered bore with nuts on both sides to adjust the play; assuming the mandrel is not damaged and the bearings worn then they can be adjusted very finely. If need be they can be replaced but you would need a lathe to make them.

There is a norton box for threading giving a large range of imperial threads as well as a full change gear set allowing BA and module threads if metric is required then a 127 gear is added to the change gear train. I have cut thousands of imperial and metric threads on this lathe without problem.

Bracehand used to supply parts for these machines I don't know whether they are still in existence. Parts also come up on auction sites fairly regularly especially the collets though most of them are imperial. One thing that is brilliant on these lathes is the cross slide travel, it goes completely past the centerline and enables some awkward jobs to be completed especially when running the lathe in reverse.

All in all a good buy if in good condition but as noted previously they have been around for a long time and many of them are past their best.

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi Jason,
What was the cause of the problem on your Bridgeport ?

Les.

[jason spencerParticipant @jasonspencer41535]

Posted by Les Jones 1 on 06/04/2013 08:50:05:

Hi Jason,
What was the cause of the problem on your Bridgeport ?

Les.

Hi Les

There was some damaged wiring off a fuse and the isolator switch was wired incorrectly, I think its from when it was removed from operation and placed in stowage, I'm going to update the thread soon. Thanks again.

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