Quick release tool post for Sieg SC4

[David Hatfield 1Participant @davidhatfield1]

I have recently purchased a Sieg SC4 lathe. I have no experience of lathe work but I have enrolled for the SMEE Poly course in London, although I actually live in Ireland but I have been unable to locate any clubs here. I am finding the course extremely helpful and hopefully have learnt a lot during the first three sessions.

The lathe came with a 4 way tool post but I would like to purchase a quick release tool holder. Unfortunately Axminster do not stock a suitable quick release holder for the SC4. They have provided me with details on how to adapt one of their holders to fit the SC4 but I am reluctant to make the changes they suggest to the tool post as I lack the relevant experience to make the changes they suggest. I spoke with Arc Eurotrade recently and although they did try and help, none of the quick release holders they stocked fitted the SC4. I wonder if anyone knows of a supplier of quick release holders suitable for the SC4?

Any suggestions would be much appreciated

David

[David Hatfield 1Participant @davidhatfield1]

[Yngvar FParticipant @yngvarf]

Hi David

I bought a A2Z toolpost from littlemachinshop for my SC4.

It's a direct fit and the right size but after using it a few years I find it a bit light and flimsy.

Maybe a Dickson style toolpost would fit.

Yngvar

[SteamgeekParticipant @steamgeek]

Try Arc Euro Trade

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

He did!! Ian S C

[AndyPParticipant @andyp13730]

David

The MESNI might be a useful contact – shorter commute at least

Andy

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Have a look at the picture in this old thread. He is using a myford one. Be aware that on another thread a shortage fo toolholder is being reported.

Also must say that as a beginner you don't need a QCTP. Even as an expert you don't. If you are in a tearing hurry beccause of all your trips to London it might help. It is for making quick changes in a jobbing shop not for improving your machining.

Edited By Bazyle on 30/07/2014 13:40:04

[David Hatfield 1Participant @davidhatfield1]

Thanks for all your replies which are much appreciated:

Yngvar, That looks just what I'm looking for but from past experience postage from the USA can be as much as the item being posted. If all else fails I will contact them.

SteamGeek. Yes I have had a few things from them and they are always very helpful (Thanks Ian!) They do have a suitable one but as they have decided not to stock the SC4 lathe they will not be a regular stock item which means I would be unable to obtain additional tool holders. It remains an option if all else fails.

Andy. That's interesting perhaps I need to try harder to find a more local club, or at least one in the same Country! Their location would be very difficult to reach from here (Co Mayo) as there are no direct rail links so travel would have to be via Dublin. I will try and plan my next visit to Belfast on a Thursday. Thanks for the suggestion

Bazyle, I will check the thread this evening. I'm sure it is my lack of experience but I find packing the tool (with bits of empty beer cans very time consuming but at least emptying the cans took less time! I wonder why QRTP are in short supply?

Anyway, thanks to your inputs there appears to be at least two options available.

Regards

David

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

IMHO quick change tool posts on small machines are not, perhaps, as satisfactory as might ideally be hoped. Although all engineering is a compromise, the art being to get the performance you need at a price you can afford with the minimal number of work arounds where real life collides with infinite desire, small QC systems on small lathes can leave the feeling that everything in your favour is against you. Of necessity QC tool support is indirect, round the corner, and via extra sliding joints when compared to a bolt down type. Given that the objective is to present the tool rigidly and accurately to the work the QC system inevitably compromises tool mounting stiffness which is acceptable providing there is enough stiffness left. With a small machine all the components, both in toolpost and lathe are disproportionately weaker than with a lager machine soley by reason of their small size. Affordablity in relation to amateur pockets is a very important consideration inevitably ruling out sophisticated design and close tolerance manufacture which might otherwise help overcome the limitations of small size.

Given that you have already decided that a QC set-up is within budget if a suitable one can be found its worth seeing if there is a way of getting most of the benifits of a QC set-up without loosing the stiffness inherent in bolt down systems. In the past I've found an economy "fairly fast" change toolpost system based on interchanging 4 way tool posts to be adequately satisfactory so maybe a refined version would work for you.

In practice you rarely manage to get more than two tools in the small four ways so I'd suggest 4 will be needed. Cutting up beer cans to shim up on the machine is, as you have found, unsatisfactory. It should be fairly easy to devise something to let you set the tools to centre height on the bench, preferably at a constant projection. A modest investment in known size shim stock, I'm told that the colour coded pastic type works well, and sheet metal spacers, worn out and de toothed hacksaw blades can be handy, should make the whole setting process pretty painless. Especially if you can spare a dial gauge or other measuring device so as to know exactly how much shim to add.

Best to fit a rear toolpost mount whilst you are at it then the parting tool and a simple flat top round nose 45° point facing / chamfering tool can live there. Satisfactiory basic loads for the other post would seem to be :- roughing tool & finishing tool, boring tools large & small, threading tools inside and outside. Depending on the machine and detail 4-way design you may need some low cunning to get really satisfactory indexing for the 180° shifts needed on the front tools and the 90° one on the back but nothing seems unreasonable. Obviously you may need to change the specific tools for different materials or for tricky work. I recommend that you grind the angles on the tool rather than pivot the holder to make one tool do several jobs.

When sharp and well supported the simple flat top facing tool works remarkably well. It may be easier to make a U section carrier into which the facing tool and its necessary shims can be clamped via suitable grub screws so the rear four way doesn't have to be disturbed after sharpening that tool. If you want to stick with one four way such U section carriers could be made for all the tooling if arranged so that the could be swopped in and out of the four way without altering the projection. If using simple HSS bar for tooling it would be advantageous to make the U with a built in up kick as used on Armstrong style holders so height can be set simply by varaying the projection. The amount of fuss and effort needed to produce the necessary quantity of U sections is deceptive and a considerable effort. Multiple 4 ways is much easier.

Clive

[maurice bennieParticipant @mauricebennie99556]

Hi all How about putting a slight slope on the base of the tool post ,sliding the tool would lower or higher the cutting edge. Any large movement could be taken up by one piece of packing .One other way could be two thin wedges slid together to increase or decrease the height. best wishes to all Maurice.

[TomfileryParticipant @tomfilery]

David,

Although not critical for operation of your lathe, a QCTP makes things a lot easier and quicker. In "normal" turning you invariably end up having to change tools, fairly regularly. I found that a 2, 3 or 4 way toolpost tends to get in the way. Be aware that others use tangential tools which seem to work as multi-purpose tools covering many different operations, so a tangential tool might be a useful one to have in your arsenal – though I don't have one and use a QCTP.

There are simple free toolpost designs out there which could be made on a lathe – though a milling machine does help – I suggest you investigate them. Obviously you start off with a couple of holders and make more as you need them – but beware – you need at least 2 spares as you'll always find something else to use with them, e.g. I have one for my DTI, one for my knurling tool, and one I use with a fine slitting saw for chopping up small metal sections (saw in the chuck and stock in the tool holder)!

Would I go back to a normal toolpost now – no way!

Regards Tom

[John ShepherdParticipant @johnshepherd38883]

David

A lot of good advice already but for what it is worth my experience with the Sieg SC4 and quick change tool post.

I used the one described as suitable for Myford and bought it as a kit of tool holders plus parting tool holder.from Chronos. It is the same as the one in the link given in a previous post in this thread, I have since bought additional holders from both Chronos and RDG with no interchangeability problems. The screws have sometimes not been too good though, and these have been replaced. You will need to make a new post to fit the new body as the one that is fitted with the original 4 way is not suitable. The replacement needs to be a close fit in the mounting hole or have a stepped washer to make sure there can be no movement other than around the axis.

It will help you with the quality of your machining because it will help you use the right tool for the job pre set to centre height. With the best will in the world you will otherwise be tempted to get by with whatever is in the tool holder.

[Bill PudneyParticipant @billpudney37759]

Posted by Bazyle on 30/07/2014 13:24:41:

Have a look at the picture in this old thread. He is using a myford one. Be aware that on another thread a shortage fo toolholder is being reported.

Also must say that as a beginner you don't need a QCTP. Even as an expert you don't. If you are in a tearing hurry beccause of all your trips to London it might help. It is for making quick changes in a jobbing shop not for improving your machining.

Edited By Bazyle on 30/07/2014 13:40:04

I disagree. Our small machines are very critical on tool sharpness, height setting and so on, especially at the small sizes that are common, in our miniature machining. As a result we need to change tools far more frequently than in for instance a jobbing shop.

Continually shuffling shims, and generally pratting around just trying to get a tool to the right height is a major disincentive to a happy life.

Get a QCTP !!

cheers

Bill

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I would not be without my home-made QCTP. The amount of time it saves is phenomenal, and your work improves because there's no time penalty in swapping to a different tool.

I haven't noticed any rigidity issues, this is parting off a 1 1/2" washer which would be impossible with a 'flexible' setup.

Neil

[David Hatfield 1Participant @davidhatfield1]

Many thanks for all your various suggestions which have been most helpful. In an ideal world I would have chosen to machine my own QC system but unfortunately I do not have the confidence to do so at this stage of my learning curve. It was interesting to note a general lack of availability for commercial systems which has certainly been my own experience. Anyway, I finally decided on the A2Z system which will cost 62$ to deliver from the USA! I would have preferred the only one I could source in the UK (from ARC) but the uncertainty on sourcing additional holders was a deciding factor.

Again, thank you for all the advice – I'm so impressed you may be hearing from me again!!

Regards

David

[Ioan C WittmannParticipant @ioancwittmann]

Hi.

This is an old thread but…

I have just purchased an Axminster Seig SC4/510 and am fitting a Dickson style Myford tool holder from RDG Tools.

It is necessary to turn a new hold down post but that is not hard to do. I will upload pics and a drawing when completed.

Axminster is waiting for fresh stock to arrive of the ready machined holder and nut that will fit directly to the existing post. They tell me that it won't be until late March (2016).

Ioan

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

.

Beware of Dickson 'Clones' – Not all clones are created equal.!

I had a clone that was about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

Nick

[Ioan C WittmannParticipant @ioancwittmann]

Posted by Nick_G on 28/01/2016 13:00:51:

.

Beware of Dickson 'Clones' – Not all clones are created equal.!

I had a clone that was about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

Nick

Hi Nick.

I take offense at that, I hold several patents on chocolate fireguard technology.

Other than that I totally agree with you. The RDG one seems to be holding up OK at time of writing but it has not had a lot asked of it yet.

Ioan

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

Posted by Ioan C Wittmann on 28/01/2016 13:15:42:

 

Hi Nick.

I take offense at that,

Ioan

.

That is your prerogative to be offended if you so wish. It's a free country. (I think)

Perhaps I should have said "Some clones". But I did think I had made that clear by saying they were not ALL equal.

The clone I had / have was so bad I have not even got the gall to shift it on via ebay. It came from RDG and I stand by my 'chocolate fireguard' statement. – But I am willing to except that I 'may' have got a bad one. It has been shown to a few other members of this forum and a pro engineer. All were appalled.! When I first got it I was a total newbie and knew no better. If were to be delivered it now I would send it straight back. ………….. We live and learn eh.?

I did not blanket condemn on mass the style and technology of all Dickson clones. I just urged caution as I know I am not the only one.

Have a nice day.

Nick

EDIT – having reread your post I think you were speaking in jest about 'chocolate fireguards' – Oooooooops, sorry. 

Still have a good day though. 

Nick

 

Edited By Nick_G on 28/01/2016 13:55:33

[Ioan C WittmannParticipant @ioancwittmann]

Hi Nick

Ah well, that was supposed to be a joke! Nice bit of selective editing though.

Maybe I have been lucky then. I am relatively new to small lathe work but know a decently made item when I see it. It is square, the parts all fit together well and operate smoothly. What more can you ask. Time will tell how well it wears and or bends. And of course, everyone else that I tried was sold out so choice was limited.

If we buy cheap tooling we must be prepared to compromise on quality. Or make our own. I believe that a Chinese worker with a CNC machine can do a better job than I can by hand as I don't own a mill.

If you want to sell yours on then PM me with a price and postage.

Regards

Ioan

[VicParticipant @vic]

I wonder if it's worth buying a Dickson tool post, perhaps second hand, and then buying "cloned" holders? I'm lead to believe the better copies are interchangeable with the real thing?

Funny how old posts get brought back from the dead …

[davebParticipant @daveb17630]

Even for amateurs, QC toolposts are well worthwhile (unless you actually enjoy fiddling about with bits of tin and center height gauges). I use a Dickson (Myford) type on my mini lathe, it is usable on the top slide (new mounting post necessary) but much better when fitted direct to the cross slide via a raising block. These machines are not that solid and it's one thing less to wobble. Old post but a good 'un.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Bazyle on 30/07/2014 13:24:41:

Have a look at the picture in this old thread. He is using a myford one. Be aware that on another thread a shortage fo toolholder is being reported.

Also must say that as a beginner you don't need a QCTP. Even as an expert you don't. If you are in a tearing hurry beccause of all your trips to London it might help. It is for making quick changes in a jobbing shop not for improving your machining.

No-one needs a QCTP but once you have used one for a job that needs multiple tool changes, you will bless it every time you use it.

Mine is the most useful accessory I ever bought or made

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