Pre war Colchester Master

[hthParticipant @hth]

[hthParticipant @hth]

hi

 

I recently found a old Colchester Master lathe, it looks pre war to me . It is in nice condition as its been looked after . A neat conversiojn to V belt drive is a handy mod. It has 24 speeds .  I would like to know the gauge of the original drip tray ?

 

I am thinking of replacing the wick oilers on the spindle bearings with drip oilers . Mike in Australia

 

Edited By hth on 21/08/2015 12:29:48

Edited By hth on 21/08/2015 12:32:39

[Mick HenshallParticipant @mickhenshall99321]

Now that looks a nice piece of kit,congratulations-24 speeds crikey I have just 6

Mick

[Mick HenshallParticipant @mickhenshall99321]

I seem to have posted reply twice, second time I done this well I am an OAP!!!

 

Edited By Mick Henshall on 21/08/2015 12:57:59

Edited By Mick Henshall on 21/08/2015 13:00:08

[hthParticipant @hth]

hi Mick

The motor and counter shaft pullies have three belt positions, the main spindle pulley cone has four belt positions . Yes it is a beaut old lathe and in great condition . .

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Looks like the 38 to 39 model see HERE

Enjoy!

Neil

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Looks like an ML7 on steroids, a real metal muncher

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

Hi Mike

Gee for a minute I thought it was my old lathe!
I live in Melbourne OZ

I also removed the original drip tray and replaced it with a very similar one to the one shown in your photo The original tray was far too small to be useful. I also made up a drive frame using angle and a countershaft supported by ball plumber blocks, although It was fitted with a variable speed drive. Yours does not appear to have a gap bed and the engagement lever for the back gear is not visible, or was it discarded when the v belt pulleys were fitted on the spindle? The machine as built had a flat belt step pulley. For the drive I just bored out a cast iron double v pulley to a close fit on one of the original flats and drove that. Apart from that almost the identical. Your machine almost certainly had a shiny black Japan finish.

I really regrated having to part with it, there was not enough room to keep it when I got my new lathe. It was a very accurate and reliable machine. Hmmm

Regards
John

Oh And the gauge of the tray?
Maybe 18 gauge definitely less than 16 gauge as a guess. It would be hard to duplicate, it had a quarter round radius all forming the edge with rounded corners. The top lip was a rolled round edge. about 12mm diameter. I am not sure if it was wired.  

Edited By John McNamara on 21/08/2015 16:59:13

[frank brownParticipant @frankbrown22225]

This is what I used on a slightly smaller lathe :- http://www.airflow-uk.co.uk/Heavy-Duty-Drip-Tray.html

Just needs a drop of sealer on the corners.

Frank

[hthParticipant @hth]

Hi John

Thank you for the tray info .

I live in West Gippsland , near Warragul. I wonder what you did with the original drip tray ? Amazing , you had a similar model. Yes the gap bed is on mine, maybe it isn't visible in the pic. The back gear lever is there , hiding .Ok the colour black Japan .. good

I have a few other lathes , a Chipmaster and a Harrison L5 and a pre war Holbrook T13 . I am addicted to collecting these old gems !

[hthParticipant @hth]

Hi

The spindle taper in this old lathe . Would it be a MT 5 ?

Thanks mike

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Morse 3 in the tailstock of the 6.5 inch geared head version

spindle bore 1-9/16" no morse mentioned…. sounds suspicious…

Edited By Ady1 on 28/08/2015 09:00:46

[Keith LongParticipant @keithlong89920]

Mike – don't be too surprised if it turns out to be neither 4 or 5MT but something in between. Colchester among several other makers used what is often known as a 41/2MT taper roughly 1.5 inch dia at the larger end and 1.25 at the smaller. Bushes are available but can be expensive, but if you've gfot the facilities then turning one isn't that difficult and you can make it accept whatever you want up the middle. I've got the same issues with an IXL lathe with a Colchester Master clone headstock. I'm expecting to make several bushes (mild steel will be OK) with a range of 1-4MT centres and might make one with an R8 centre to accept the milling chuck as well.

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

Hi Mike

I wish I could tell you the taper on mine…. Unfortunately it came with a plug so I never had to make one.
I did have to make one for my current lathe, a link to the process I used follows

**LINK**

In this case I made two at a time, so the piece could be turned end for end while checking the taper fit, one Morse taper 4 and one int40 machine taper.
I use them to this day.

regards
John

[hthParticipant @hth]

Thank you for the replies everyone.

Yes the tailstock is MT3 .

I need to know what the 4 1/2 MT taper is in terms of thou per inch .

 

4MT = .05193" per inch

 

5MT= .05262" per inch

 

The machining data books I have do not list the 4 1/2 MT .

 

Mike

Edited By hth on 28/08/2015 10:07:11

[Keith LongParticipant @keithlong89920]

Mike – here's a link ot a page that gives you the data for 41/2MT. Bearing in mind the age of your lathe, you'd be better machining the nose adaptor to fit the lathe by testing the fit with engineers blue than by trying to machine to a given taper/inch. Given how close all the morse tapers are then I don't think that trying to machine to an absolute value will achieve the fit that you'll get by the trial method – do you have the facilities to set the absolute angle to 5 places of decimals – and it's always possible that in it's life someone has "cleaned" the taper up or adjusted it anyway.

[davebParticipant @daveb17630]

That's a big Myford!

A very acceptable 'rolled edge' can be made by slitting 10 or 12mm steel tube and welding to the edge of the tray. Corners may be mitred or use a suitable (same size outside diameter as tube) elbow for a rounded corner.

[hthParticipant @hth]

Ok very good

Yes I agree , the tolerances are very small … blueing is the answer .

Rolled edge, yes good idea re the tube . I have done that trick, making wings for an old vehicle

Mike

[hthParticipant @hth]

Hi

This old Colchester has a thrust bearing located on the main spindle somewhere but I cannot find it as yet . I have not dismantled anything and it is difficult to see what's in there . I think the thrust bearing is hidden inside the small gear that drives the back gear ? Any info appreciated . Mike

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

If I was you I would get a proper manual, that's a high end manual machine tool you're messing with

There's bound to be a yahoo type group with the experience and details you need to get going

Edited By Ady1 on 13/09/2015 12:50:23

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

Hi Mike

The thrust bearing on mine was located between the main bearings against the right side of the left spindle bearing. The thrust bearing itself was a large ball thrust bearing from memory about 20mm thick. the main bearings were bronze bushes. you have to keep them well oiled or they will seize.

To remove any play the thrust bearing is tightened against the spindle by a large threaded ring at the left hand end of the spindle that also retained the drive train gear and a collar. you will need a pin spanner. you should find the bearing under the small cover to the left as seen in your photo.

The back gear on mine was under the spindle within the headstock.

It was made from cast Iron as was the bull gear. The gears were badly damaged when I got the lathe. I had to repair teeth on the large back gear and replace the small pinion altogether. I also had to make up a new bull gear from one scrounged from a dealer not easy to find. It was a big job.

If yours are intact without missing teeth you are lucky. Clearly they do not like to be overloaded.

You will probably find there is only a single half nut that engages the leadscrew for screw cutting this is moved down onto the leadscrew by a lever. It too is cast Iron, it is guided by a 3/4 inch (from memory) cast iron spigot. I managed to break that one day while cutting a heavy thread. The fix for that was to bore a slightly smaller hole in the nut body and Loctite in a stepped 3/4 inch mild steel pin to replace the cast iron pin… I still have the pin! saw it the other day in a box….
For Colchester not a good design. It was bound to break one day. Mild steel is better.

The gears on the back of the apron are open. there is no sealed gearbox I would dismantle the apron and clear out the detritus that has accumulated there before greasing everything and reassembling.

One nice feature of the lathe is how easy it is to adjust the headstock alignment. Just loosen (firm not too loose) the 4 bolts that clamp it down (Look up under the headstock between the ways) You can then adjust the spindle axis until it is perfectly parallel to the bed via small jack screws under each end of the headstock.

Regards
john

Edited By John McNamara on 13/09/2015 14:32:10

[hthParticipant @hth]

Thanks John

That is interesting and very informative .

Another one of these lathes has turned up , a chap up at Wangaratta has one .

 

I took this pic. I removed the cover but I Cannot see any thrust bearing ????

 

Mike

Edited By hth on 14/09/2015 12:27:57

Edited By hth on 14/09/2015 12:37:30

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Not unusual for it to be out of sight

The "usual position" would be for it to be just rearward of the small cog at the end of the pulleys, nestling inside the rear headstock bearing carrier on the right hand side, so it could take the pressure of cutting/ between centres work etc

Around position A

 

Edited By Ady1 on 14/09/2015 13:41:46

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

Hi Mike

There are a couple of subtle differences between the headstock on your lathe and the model I had.

On mine the thrust bearing was visible when you removed the cover. I notice the leaver for tumbler reverse? (or is it to engage the back gear) the setup is different to mine.

It would be interesting to see a photo of the one that has turned up in Wang.

Regards
John

[Ralph HParticipant @ralphh]

I went to see a gentleman in Salisbury yesterday to collect a 13" faceplate won through eBay, and he had this lathe in his garage – sold but not collected – which may be of interest to this thread, as it includes photos.

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