Holder for CCGT Inserts

[James AParticipant @jamesalford67616]

I am planning to buy some of these CCGT inserts, but am not clear what type of holder I would need for them. None that I can find seems to specifically mention CCGT inserts. Are the holders fairly universal or do I need a specific holder for these tips?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115095674404

Regards,

James.

 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The holders don’t knw if you are using GT or MT but the shape and size of the insert is what determines the holder.

If you look at this page and work through the various letters you will see that the holder you want is likely to be a

S =Screw

C = 80deg corner

L = Clearance both sides

C = 7deg side clearance of insert

R  = Most common as you can turn and face with it.

10 = Height check what your lathe can take

10 = Width usually the same as height eg square shank

F = Not critical but about right for a 10mm tool

06=  Same as insert size

 

So you are looking for a SCLCR 1010F06 holder for general turning. For a smaller lathe you would want SCLCR 0606D06 which would have a 6mm square shank

 

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

What Jason said, as an aside, I have been using Ashdown and am very pleased with the quality.

[cedric 1Participant @cedric]

Same holder as for the CCMT insert of the same number. Buy a set of cheap holders then buy the ccgt inserts to fit.

[DC31kParticipant @dc31k]

As above, it will be more economic to buy more than a single holder, even if you buy two or three with the same code.

If the holder seller offers the securing screws for the inserts, buy a few of those just in case one is lost when changing an insert.

[Andrew Tinsley]

On Andrew Tinsley Said:

What Jason said, as an aside, I have been using Ashdown and am very pleased with the quality.

Duly noted, Andrew … Thanks

The website is nicely done too !

https://ashdowntooling.co.uk/collections

MichaelG.

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

I agree with Andrew and Michael, the Ashdown website nicely presents the products and prices are good too.

Ashdown Tooling state they are located in the ‘North West’, I searched their ‘About’ and T&C’s but nowhere do they show their postal address or even general location. Maybe it is not a legal requirement nowadays (and they probably don’t want unwanted callers) but since they give invoices with every purchase their address can’t actually be that secret.

Ian P (just going to place an order anyway)

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I did not think they had much on their website. Compare the small amount of “turning & facing” tools on the website to the ebay store and you have a much better range on ebay including suitable holders for the OP which are not shown on their site. Plus the extra 7% off if buying more than one item.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/ashdowntooling?_trksid=p4429486.m3561.l170197

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

They’re in Prescot on Merseyside – found it on their Ebay profile.

Rob

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

CCMT 06 for steel and CCGT 06 for aluminium and finishing steel are a very good insert for smaller lathes and for boring bars up to 12mm diameter.

Ashdown tooling have been my source of 26mm parting off blades in 2 and 3 mm widths for MGMN inserts, I have not been able to find them anywhere else. I have tried the GTN style and do not like them at all.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

You will find holders for CC## 09 size more available if you can fit a 12mm holder on your lathe. The cheap ones can be good though the inserts supplied with them are reject quality

[James AParticipant @jamesalford67616]

Thank you for all of your replies. I shall read them properly later and order something.

Mu choice will be a little restricted as the machine can only take 8mm tools.

James

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Depending on your budget, I can recommend both of these suppliers for quality.

8mm square pair R+L with 4 inserts for steel plus spanner by Glanze @£39.18. EBAY no. 371815027432

CCGT 060204 for aluminium box of 10 Do-Tool made in S Korea @£18.45 EBAY no. 163784616291

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

One point that may or may not be important to the OP is that the screw held C series rhomboid inserts have only two effective cutting edges per insert. So inevitably you get fewer miles of swarf per insert than from a tricorn W series insert with three effective corners. Theoretically you can use the other two edges of a rhomboid insert for facing cuts if you buy another toolholder. In practice, as Jason says, the rhomboid insert does facing as well as longitudinal turning so generally you won’t bother.

I’ve no idea how much life the modern model engineer gets out of a insert cutting edge as my work is very different in size and style, But its obviously infuriating if your last edge dies mid job or if you are unlucky enough to encounter a piece of “patent carbide eating material”.

These days it is financially viable to go all in on inserts but, unlike HSS, you don’t have the option of resharpening so the cost of having sufficient stock of edges to cover all reasonable disasters has to be considered. The big advantage of inserts is that the cutting edge geometry is certain to be correct.

The time is ripe for a proper analysis of appropriate size / style mixes for the “all insert” model engineer depending on the work they do.

Clive

Way back I went for pin held C series inserts which are double sided giving me 4 edges per insert but that isn’t an option on your smaller shanks.

(I have one of those holders for unused edges and it comes out only when I’m faced with something ruff and knobbly that is likely to destroy tips. One exceptionally obdurate lump killed four edges before getting down to something that behaved sensibly.)

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

You can use the obtuse angle on diameters, just not up to a shoulder. What I would like is a mill facing cutter which used these edges, but never found one. The obtuse corner is stronger and less likely to chip.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I’m the opposite and use my two holders that make use of the two obtuse corners a lot of the time, one does facing, the other turning. A lot of times you are not facing or turning to a shoulder so there is really no reason not to use the obtuse corners. They both have their own QCTP holder so easy to swap in and out. So I get full use out of all four corners.

The holder I suggested would be what I consider the first one to buy as like I said it will turn and face and even chamfer. You can then add to that if needed, a left hander (SCLCL) can face or reach around the back of a part, the ones that use the other corners, boring bars, etc.

As for running out of inserts at the beginning of a weekend that is really down to the user and not thinking ahead and really no different to finding you don’t have the bit of metal needed to make a part or the correct drill, tap, etc. Push comes to a shove a diamond slip will put an edge back onto an insert to get you out of trouble.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Remember, James A can only use 8mm square tooling and it does limit the choice of inserts that fit without being very oversize. The WNMG 06 size have 6 cutting edges but are just about usable with 10mm and upwards tooling.

As mentioned, there are holders which can hold the CC-T  06 using the obtuse corner which helps in certain circumstances especially held sideways while facing off a flat surface.

[duncan webster 1]

On duncan webster 1 Said:

You can use the obtuse angle on diameters, just not up to a shoulder. What I would like is a mill facing cutter which used these edges, but never found one. The obtuse corner is stronger and less likely to chip.

It looks like they may be made, but trying to track down a UK stockist might be a different matter.
I think this is an example, but it might just be perspective.

https://www.exportersindia.com/product-detail/std-face-mill-cutter-for-iso-insert-ccmt-09-4466330.htm

Bill

[James AParticipant @jamesalford67616]

Thank you for all of the advice and recommendations. I have now ordered a set of tips and an 8mm holder from Ashdowns.

Although I can grind HSS tools, I am not very consistent and sometimes cannot be sure whether the tool is the problem, the material or my technique. Inserts should eliminate one variable.

I was refacing some Austin Seven spring shackles at the weekend. The first faced beautifully, but the next, a different style of casting, cut like soft cheese. I do not know whether it was the tool being badly ground or the metal being sticky.

James

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

You may find that after all these years that the one that machined nicely was an original forging and the loose one was cut from rubbish plate as a repair job.

[bernard towers]

On bernard towers Said:

You may find that after all these years that the one that machined nicely was an original forging and the loose one was cut from rubbish plate as a repair job.

They were both castings, but they were clearly very different in profile, so I suspect that you are right.

James

[James AParticipant @jamesalford67616]

The set of CCGT060202-AK tips and the 8mm holder that I ordered from Ashdowns arrived on Friday.

I tried them out on a piece of scrap steel of unknown specification: it was an old pivot pin from an Austin 7 spring shackle.

The tips cut the metal beautifully, even on the lathe’s lowest speed. At top speed, about 750rpm, the finish was very good. The finish with HSS tools was less good.

For anyone with a small, lightweight and less than rigid lathe, such as the Flexispeed, these tips would be well worth considering.

Thank you for the recommendations.

James.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Ringing Jenny at JB Cutting Tools is all the info needed for ordering suitable cutters and holders.  I’ve never been let down by them.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

What that lady doesn’t know about tip and holders isn’t worth knowing.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Though looking at her ebay shop no CCGT 06 inserts or a suitable R/H holder that would meet the OP’s needs. Ones on the website ar a bit pricy and not the size the OP wants.

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