Drill chuck

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Do Keyless chucks wear out.  I have a 13mm Makita cordless battery drill which is about 8 years old and has a propensity to slip on most drill sizes leaving score marks on drill shanks.  I have found that over the years, I tighten the chuck, spin it around a bit and do a 2nd tightening  – sometimes it works but others,  oh dear me – No.

Looking on the net,  there are plenty of suppliers of these chucks, so does that answer my question ??

Bob

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

A key less chuck – Ideal for speed but of doubtful quality in terms of workmanship. They need a good grip to do them up for heavy duty use or they will slip. A good keyed chuck is better for heavy use. Good luck. Noel.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I have found the technology usually wears out before the chuck. My cordless drills for work generally get replaced as better battery and motor designs become available or more compact lighter and more powerful machines come onto the market. If mine have worn it is usually the knurled external sleeve that has become smooth with daily use.

Also depends on your makita, a lower end one with plastic outer to the chuck is not going to be as good as an all metal one.

Also people can loose gripping power with age so may simply not be able to hold the check and tighten it as much.

[noel shelley]

On noel shelley Said:

A good keyed chuck is better for heavy use.

Could you show me a battery, cordless drill that has a keyed chuck on it please.

Every manufacturer under the sun, from the big brand names to the B&Q/Wickes/Homebase own-brand and Ali-no-brand uses a keyless chuck.

—

Yes, keyless chucks wear out. On cordless tools, the chuck is normally quite integrated with the torque-setting ring behind it, hence an OEM replacement specifically for that model tool has greatest chance of fitting nicely.

Post the Makita model number and we can find the part number you need. You are lucky because in my experience, Makita have good spares availability, reasonable pricing and adequate lead times.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I had a couple of Makitas with keyed chucks so they are out there.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

I have a couple of expensive Hitachi drills. They were both fitted with the usual hand tightened chucks. These were quickly binned and a good quality keyed chucks were fitted in their place, no more drill slippage.

I would not use any of the common battery drills with their hand tightened chucks. unless you like stoning off the burrs on the drills.

Andrew.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I have a set of hex shank drills for my rubbish drill that can’t grip …..

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I have a Lot of recess-hex tooling for my drills with the quick change holders you only need tighten the chuck if you need to take out the holder. Also the impact driver does not have a chuck just direct recess hex drive.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I have lost most of my grip due to arthritus and even need a tool to get the tops of plastic milk bottles off. There is a 16mm Italian made keyless chuck which I got for the S & B lathe and if that is used, I have a strap wrench on the lathes shadow board, which can also help unscrew lathe chucks without resorting to percussion which is more likely to break something.

One of the volunteers got a new Hitachi 18V drill and had trouble with drills slipping and I swopped the chuck from his old drill and he then had no more trouble. Both chucks were the keyless type.

Getting a replacement chuck for a battery drill needs two considerations before buying. First, is the old one single grip or double and second, is the fitting thread 3/8 or 1/2 UNF. The screw right down inside is left hand thread to stop the chuck coming unscrewed accidentally.

Keyed chucks with the UNF fitting threads are easy to get hold of.

The little 12V Parkside drills with two speed gearbox and the usual elecrronic speed control have QD 10mm keyless chucks and a 1/4 hex drive hidden until the chuck is off.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Accepting that all the keyless chucks on hand held power tools are, by proper machine tool standards, pretty rubbish there is some variation in standards and gripping ability.

The better ones have a locking ratchet device built into the chuck. Almost always arranged for one handed operation.

To use the chuck properly it should be tightened up by turning in the usual manner, either by hand or power, and then backed off in the opposite direction by one “click” from the ratchet device. This ratchet is what stops it opening under load. Some varieties, like that on my big 18V Makita click the ratchet a couple or three times as the chuck comes up tight others are silent and only click when backed off. Whatever you have to come back one click.

I’m unsure as to whether I like the Makita click as it comes up tight idea. Reassuring in that it proves things are working but it’s tempting to assume that once sighted hard enough to click the ratchet the lock is on. Which it may or may not be. Assuming that resulted in very inconsistent behaviour when hammer drilling. Sometimes the drill would stay in sometime it would loosen. Back one click and it does stay put.

The two handed type have separate collar below the normal tightening sleeve. Generally a pain to get at which is probably why they have fallen out of favour.

So far as I, along with folk on You-Tube and Reddit, know this back one click to lock feature is not mentioned in any drill manual. Found a You-Tube by a guy who actually rang up the makers technical support for information. Mostly “Yes thats how it works.”.

I have seen the two handed type mentioned in a “why our drill is better” type advert some years back but have long forgotten which brand.

Clive

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Well,  you learn something new every day, I wonder what was squished out of my brain last night to make room for this new idea.  Thanks all for your comments

Bob

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Having slept on things I got to wondering about the mechanism required to make this locking feature actually work.

A bit of spelunking down Mrs Googles rabbit warren wasn’t particularly productive although the AI bit is convinced that the system works by disconnecting the outer sleeve from the innards when  the ratchet is free. Hence the need to back off one click. How disconnecting the sleeve makes a difference is, ahem, “unclear”.  The two handed version is in principle more understandable as that simply locks the sleeve in the same manner as an radiancy locknut.

I did find a patent apparently relating to the system https://patents.google.com/patent/US7757374 covering both one hand and two hand versions. Interestingly Google finds two versions of this patent out there, US20060038359A1 apparently being slightly earlier despite the larger number with no differences I can see. The diagrams are pretty but I still don’t see how it actually works.

Just to add to the confusion Sealey and some other replacement chuck suppliers claim theirs auto lock when you tighten the chuck down to an appropriate torque with no need for the back off one click. Presumably something similar going on inside as the auto-lock comment makes no sense if simply hand tightening the sleeve as on an old fashioned inexpensive chucks fitted to hand operated drills.

Real machine tool standard keyless chucks, Albrecht et al, lock by converting some of the downwards force to effectively move the sleeve further round increasing the grip. Driven by push back on the gipping jaws ao if you don’t leave bait of space behind the end of the drill for it to move into they will lock up incredibly tight. Generally they don’t like hex shanks either and will do the same uber tight thing.

Clive

[peak4Participant @peak4]

It’s a topic which comes up fairly regularly on this and other forums.

This was an earlier contribution of mine, regarding an old Rohm chuck of a Hitachi hammer cordless which locks for anti clockwise use.

Keyless Drill Chuck

See also for some diagrams and further info.
https://www.roehm.biz/en/products/drill-chucks/supra-series/

Bill

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Peak4

Interesting extra information.

However the Rhom supra series chucks are essentially the same as Albrecht and other machine chucks with the internal screw to increase gripping force should things try to slip.  The operating principle not vastly dissimilar to a Clarkson milling chuck.

Supra chuck looks to be around £120 for standard cordless drill 1/2″ 20 UN fitting. Bit more than the usual £10 -£20 odd for a no-name locking chuck similar to standard fit. Up to about double with a brand name.

MSC direct will sell you a Rhom extra RV chuck on a 1/2 -20 thread for approaching £35 which has “carbide jaw inserts for greater durability, radial locking system which gives an audible click when locked” so probably getting on for best of breed in the usual style of chuck. What I shall probably get when I need a new one.

https://www.mscdirect.co.uk/rohm-12-x-20unf-extra-rv-steel-keyless-chuck-1-13mm-dcr-85415a?gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23579555482&gbraid=0AAAAADq_z2Ouf_ejRwM8R8fD-mNloWq_L&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIssPx9bT8kgMVhplQBh3IZwiREAQYBiABEgL_M_D_BwE

Clive

[VicParticipant @vic]

I’ve got a 15 year old 18V Makita drill and the chuck looks a bit tatty now but works just fine.

If I needed to I might replace it with a metal bodied replacement, but I’d not fit a keyed chuck.

[old mart]

On old mart Said:

I have lost most of my grip due to arthritus and even need a tool to get the tops of plastic milk bottles off. There is a 16mm Italian made keyless chuck which I got for the S & B lathe and if that is used, I have a strap wrench on the lathes shadow board, which can also help unscrew lathe chucks without resorting to percussion which is more likely to break something.

One of the volunteers got a new Hitachi 18V drill and had trouble with drills slipping and I swopped the chuck from his old drill and he then had no more trouble. Both chucks were the keyless type.

Getting a replacement chuck for a battery drill needs two considerations before buying. First, is the old one single grip or double and second, is the fitting thread 3/8 or 1/2 UNF. The screw right down inside is left hand thread to stop the chuck coming unscrewed accidentally.

Keyed chucks with the UNF fitting threads are easy to get hold of.

The little 12V Parkside drills with two speed gearbox and the usual elecrronic speed control have QD 10mm keyless chucks and a 1/4 hex drive hidden until the chuck is off.

I had trouble with a hitachi 18V cordless drill and the drills bits slipping. I removed the chuck and fitted one from an old dead Dewalt drill and no more slipping problems. The Hitachi one had a plastic cased chuck but the replacement Dewalt one was all metal with a finely knurled outside case. Still using it today.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Funny you should have replaced the Hitachi chuck with a De Walt one, thats exactly the swap I made for Greg, now sadly no longer with us, a great loss for the museum.

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

Anything can wear out of course, and depending on the chucks internal design, I doubt it possible to say for sure what the issue is with SB5’s Makita chuck. And  keyless chucks may not be the best choice depending on how and what tool diameter there being used with. Even an Albrecht can be locked up permanently if it’s misused and the torque self tightens the chuck beyond it’s mechanical design limits. A few have learned that the hard way.

Apparently Dewalt cheapened the supplied chucks a bit later on their larger cordless drills. The 18V Dewalt I have came with a Rohm Supra 1.5-13 mm steel bodied chuck that’s never slipped with just with normal hand tightening. It’s a very decent chuck, or at least decent enough for use on a hand held tool like this. Not up to what an Albrecht or any of other of the much more expensive keyless chucks are, but it doesn’t slip and it’s drilled thousands of holes. I don’t buy cheap drills or cutting tools, so any chuck that does slip and burr up the drill or tool shank, I can’t afford to use. And I’d be immediately replacing with something better. With all the various posts I’ve read, the problem seems all too common with almost any brand and size of portable drill today.

[MacolmParticipant @macolm]

I have recommended the Rohm Supra SK before. It is intended for impact drilling, so reasonably robust for the compact size. The specified concentricity is thus nothing special, but my two samples are both very good, used as the default chuck on my Mill/Drill, and good down to 1mm diameter drill bits. They grip well, but do need a firm nip up. It will bring howls of disapproval, but a milling cutter can be held safely for light work such as spot facing.

One big advantage is that bit changes only tale a couple of seconds, but are secure, so that once the work is set to the hole coordinate position, it is quick and easy to sequence, for example, spotting bit, sizing bit, countersink or spot facing, then move to the next position and repeat. With a keyed chuck, I always found that just too frustrating.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Looks like that Supra only comes with B16 mount so not going to work with cordless drills being discussed here.

The other thing to consider with cordless chucks is they tend to be a lot smaller than a similar capacity chuck intended for drilling machines, mills, etc. This means you have less leverage due to the smaller OD and chuck jaws are quite probably shorter too. So unlikely to have the same holding capacity.

Far easier to get a grip of teh 13mm ARC one than the smaller DW particularly when the knurl starts to wear.

[MacolmParticipant @macolm]

The Supra SK has a separate ring to engage/free the locking ratchet. It certainly comes with 1/2inch 20 thread mounting, not sure which taper(s).

https://www.roehm.biz/en/products/drill-chucks/supra-series/

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Sorry, I did looked at the Spiro SK. But at over 50% longer for teh Supra SK than my DW would defeat the object of buying a Compact Combi though depends on what sort of work you do as to how big a drill suits.

 

https://www.roehm.biz/fileadmin/user_upload/produkte/PG1_Bohrfutter/R%C3%96HM_Drill_chucks_06.2023_en.pdf

[MacolmParticipant @macolm]

Yes, the Spiro chucks are intended for fixed machine use, and are really what I should be using. But they are rather too long for a small mill, and in any case it is very difficult to find any one in the UK selling them. There is also an Albrecht chuck series with a similar locking ring, but that costs much the same as a hobby mill!

[Author]

Posts