Design a covering mechanism

[WolfieParticipant @wolfie]

OK in my day job as wagon driver we regularly have to sheet steel loads. Such as the one in the photograph. Now we are getting trouble from the HSE because it involves drivers clambering around on top of the load trying to handle a heavy sheet often in windy weather and usually alone. So we need to design something that will do this automatically.

You may be familiar with bulk tippers or skip wagons that have a sheet that is attached to a bar which simply moves from one end to the other unrolling as it goes and then the reverse to unsheet. We need something like that but the sticking point is that the sides also have to be covered.

Now we can probably utilise gravity to get the sides covered but how do you roll it all up again automatically preferably by the press of a button.

The engineering expertise on offer on this forum must have some ideas!

My wagon in Hull docks showing a typical steel load before sheeting

[WolfieParticipant @wolfie]

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

How is the steel loaded? does it get put on/taken off with forklift or do you need to keep the top clear for crane access?

J

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

So the HSE has hinted you cannot do it the "old" way, what they advise then? You cannot have a roll over system because I presume you crane on the load?

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

It looks as if you will have to have the cover go from side to side Wolfie, then have zip up ends. So it will look like a Tanker with the tank cut in half !

As you mentioned the rubble trucks have this big roll over frame that drags the cover from back to front or vice versa.

Clive

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

If the top access is not needed then go to curtain siders. Or can you get a curtain sider with a curtain top?

J

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

Hobby forum + request for vehicle mod design to go on public road + MOT approvals / certification required = bad idea + possible liability + possible disaster

[Ian AbbottParticipant @ianabbott31222]

Could you use the same type of cover that uses a pair of arms to lift the edge of the sheet away from the roller on the lengthwise models, but adapted to side mounting.

Does that make sense?

Ian

[WolfieParticipant @wolfie]

We can't go the curtain sider route or similar because the trailers are used for other types of load. So crane or side load is immaterial.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Putting the side to side suggestion from Clive H together with the front to back sheeting arrangements on tipper lorries how about having what amounts to a giant roller blind lying along and under one side of the trailer. Two power driven telescopic arms, one at each end of the trailer, pivoted on its centre line with a bar between to which the free end of the "blind" is attached could lift it over the load and down onto the other side whence the bar could be attached to the trailer. Rotating the roller would give basic tension supplemented by suitable fixed lashings to draw in the ends and pull down loose parts.

Obvious problems are needing a long, slender and therefore bendy bar to hold the free end of the sheet and arranging the lashings. Clearly some sort of loop or eye system would be needed to keep the lashings in place during deployment as clambering up to retrieve them would defeat the object. Likely to be heavy too.

Unlike Jeff I see nothing wrong with seeking information in a hobby forum. Its a good way of getting out of the box thoughts and ideas. The big gap between idea and device would naturally be filled by proper engineering. If there were an "in the box" concept floating around it would probably already be a commercial product.

Clive

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

On further consideration I'm no longer sure that the length wise roller blind style sheeting concept needs a bar at the free end. Given sufficient lift via the telescopic arms to cope with droop a cable should do just as well. Its not as if the load to be sheeted is anything like as high as curtain side or box trailer set-up so the lift is probably within reason.

With a cable defining the free end its probably workable to have fixed side to side ropes or webbing passing through loops on the surface of the sheet. These could be tensioned up over the load by some suitable inbuilt device like the common ratchet strap tensioner or simply exploiting the lorry drivers hitch to use up the slack. Not that I know owt about that sort of thing having completely failed to master the lorry drivers hitch despite being shown a dozen or more times!

Clive

[SpringbokParticipant @springbok]

agree with jeff would not like to put my name against any reccomondations can we please stick to ME surely the stuff you are carting around should have been painted/coated and by the look of what you are shipping will be subject to the environs anyway.

Bob

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Well, I see nothing wrong in asking a question, it's engineering aint it.? But as an ex HGV designer, many years ago, I can tell you this question has been asked many times and never solved. Trouble is trailer operators want to shift everything with the same trailer

[Donhe7Participant @donhe7]

Posted by Wolfie on 02/11/2012 19:48:06:

OK in my day job as wagon driver we regularly have to sheet steel loads. Such as the one in the photograph. Now we are getting trouble from the HSE because it involves drivers clambering around on top of the load trying to handle a heavy sheet often in windy weather and usually alone. So we need to design something that will do this automatically.

So HSE don't like it …………. WHAT SUGGESTIONS HAVE THEY COME UP WITH????

donhe7

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Jeff Dayman on 02/11/2012 20:52:23:

Hobby forum + request for vehicle mod design to go on public road + MOT approvals / certification required = bad idea + possible liability + possible disaster

.

You don't need MOT approval / certification to fit curtain sides or similar, they just need to be secure when the truck or rather trailer goes for test.

John S.

[AndyBParticipant @andyb47186]

Hi Wolfie,

I wondered how you filled your scrap bin…

Depending on what other loads you have to carry you might consider the trailers used by some of the big steel stockholders. It is a sliding scissor frame with a sheet fixed to it. You undo the catches and the whole frame scissors to the headboard giving both side and overhead access. There is a picture and description here:

**LINK**

Of course, you don't have to have the coil wells.

It is a lot easier than fully stripping a tilt trailer which I have done a lot of times! And then you have to put it all back together before you leave the steel works! Ask for a hand and all you got was slow hand clap. Grrr.

Andy

[WolfieParticipant @wolfie]

Posted by AndyB on 03/11/2012 15:01:21:

Hi Wolfie,

I wondered how you filled your scrap bin…

Depending on what other loads you have to carry you might consider the trailers used by some of the big steel stockholders. It is a sliding scissor frame with a sheet fixed to it. You undo the catches and the whole frame scissors to the headboard giving both side and overhead access. There is a picture and description here:

**LINK**

Of course, you don't have to have the coil wells.

It is a lot easier than fully stripping a tilt trailer which I have done a lot of times! And then you have to put it all back together before you leave the steel works! Ask for a hand and all you got was slow hand clap. Grrr.

Andy

You're right there, I haven't stripped a tilt out for years but that was a pretty unpleasant and difficult job on your own.

We'd already thought of the tunnel type trailer and its good except for one thing. You end up with the cover concertina'd up at one end and it doesn't concertina enough to allow us to put a portakabin on the trailer which is the other thing we carry.

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

"You don't need MOT approval / certification to fit curtain sides or similar, they just need to be secure when the truck or rather trailer goes for test.

John S."

It is my understanding that if you build a rigid metal structure to support any sort of pullover cover or curtain, whether fixed to the truck permanently or temporarily, it must be MOT inspected with the trailer when completed. It is classed as a rebuild or major modification. I am not an expert on the current laws though.

My main concern was such a homebuilt structure coming off partly or fully at speed, aided by the sail action of a cover, maybe. This could cause a major accident and could trigger several lawsuits especially if injuries result.

JD

[mark mcParticipant @markmc72333]

I don't think curtains/soft covers are the way to go, a guy at my work place fell from the top platform at the headboard while rolling back the top cover on a walkingfloor last week.A few days in hospital followed. And then add in wind, there a death trap.

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

UK cannot, surely, be the only industialised country to be bogged down by the Hinder & Stop brigade? So How do they cope with this prob in say, Ozzie, USA, Canada etc? We copy the rest in so many other ways.

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

Can I suggest two A frames?

set tarp on floor at rear of trailer zig zag folded (fanfold) further folded into V facing away from trailer.two A frames linked with rope to front bumper over load to rear…set inside of V of tarp pointing same way..

Attach tarp center top edge to top of first A frme..

Pull on rope at front bumper…erecting tent and A frames.. over load..

tie off rear and front remove A frames and store..tie down sides as required…

Just a suggestion…

Alternatively do it the way farmers do…no straps..sheets or tie downs…if it falls off fetch it latter…

 

Edited By jason udall on 04/11/2012 01:10:21

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Get yourself a "driver's mate" and the two of you together could do it from ground level with a couple of poles (wooden – not eastern Europeans!).

Tongue-in -cheekily,
John

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