Rebuild electromagnetic clutch

Rebuild electromagnetic clutch

Home Forums Electronics in the Workshop Rebuild electromagnetic clutch

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 27 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #823180
    Wade Beatty
    Participant
      @wadebeatty78296

      My new (used) surface grinder has an automatic downfeed/shutoff system that has an electromagnetic clutch in it. I needed to remove the vertical motor to get this tall machine in my shop. When i remove the motor i saw that someone else had been in there before me and the wires to the coil for the clutch were parted at or inside the coil case and taped off. I have been in contact with Lenze who made the clutch and replacement parts have not been available for decades.

      I believe that i can repair this but need some advice. It is a simple wound coil. There are no wires accessable externally, they broke internally

      Is the wire diameter and number of turns the only real criteria for a wound coil? If I remove the epoxy and coil (almost impossible without damaging the wire) and have a 3d printed spool made, can i just wind with the same approximate turns, attach new leads and re-fill with epoxy?

      Thanks for your help on this

      Wade

      20251103_130034

      #823196
      Robert Atkinson 2
      Participant
        @robertatkinson2

        Yes and yes.
        The number of turns and wire size are the important criteria. What voltage is it?

        Robert.

        #823199
        Wade Beatty
        Participant
          @wadebeatty78296

          Thanks Robert,

          24V 10W

          Lenze 14.102.05.1-24V10W 29/86VDE0580 is the PN on the coil

          Wade

          #823212
          SillyOldDuffer
          Moderator
            @sillyoldduffer

            I’d reproduce it based on the diameter of the wire and the size of the spool.

            • Break into the winding and measure the diameter of the wire.
            • Buy a reel of magnet wire of about the same diameter.  SWG/AWG or metric should all be ‘near enough’.
            • 3D-print a new spool to fit the electromagnet.  Or make from thin cardboard or plastic sheet.
            • Wind magnet wire on to the spool until it’s suitably full.
            • Secure with glue or whatever.

            Though a coil-winder is best because they are controllable, you can use a lathe to wind the wire.

            • The magnet wire reel should be on an axle stand so it unwinds as the wire is pulled off.
            • low rpm
            • steer wire layers onto the spool and gently maintain tension with fingers.
            • have some way of stopping the lathe without losing control.  Maintain tension at the end otherwise coils spring off in a last minute panic!  Foot switch or assistant.   The assistant can secure the winding with electrical tape whilst the driver holds the wire.

            You can guess how I know it can all go horribly wrong in the last 10 seconds whilst coil winding on a lathe…

            🙁

            Dave

             

            #823222
            noel shelley
            Participant
              @noelshelley55608

              Start with the old coil, VERY carefully follow the old wires and as soon as there is enough to get a sound connection test for resistance. using ohms law see if the numbers tally. IF so then solder on new leads and attach to the coil body so they are secure. Then rewire to the machine. Other wise its a coil winding job. Good luck. Noel.

              #823226
              Robert Atkinson 2
              Participant
                @robertatkinson2

                It will be epoxy potted so unlikely to come apart in one piece. Replicate the bobbin / former and fill with same size wire to the same depth. Being a 24V DC coil it will be reasonably thick wire and not very critical.

                #823241
                Wade Beatty
                Participant
                  @wadebeatty78296

                  Thanks all for the replies. Yes, i can picture the last 10 seconds very well!!

                  Wade

                  #823242
                  Wade Beatty
                  Participant
                    @wadebeatty78296

                    The wire measures 0.23mm with varnish.

                    Wade

                    #823243
                    Robert Atkinson 2
                    Participant
                      @robertatkinson2

                      That would be 35 SWG, 24 AWG or most likely as it a european maker 0.2mm This is widely available.

                      #823244
                      Grindstone Cowboy
                      Participant
                        @grindstonecowboy

                        I think the closest to that would be something like this.

                        Rob

                        Links to https://cpc.farnell.com/multicomp-pro/ecwo-25/33swg-enamelled-copper-wire/dp/CB01216?st=enamelled%20copper%20wire

                        Edit – Robert types faster than me, and then I’ve been messing about editing it 🙂

                        #823245
                        Robert Atkinson 2
                        Participant
                          @robertatkinson2
                          On Grindstone Cowboy Said:

                          I think the closest to that would be something like this.

                          Rob

                          Links to https://cpc.farnell.com/multicomp-pro/ecwo-25/33swg-enamelled-copper-wire/dp/CB01216?st=enamelled%20copper%20wire

                          Edit – Robert types faster than me, and then I’ve been messing about editing it 🙂

                          The 2.5mm is too thick. This is the worst way to go for DC coils. Thicker wire means less resistance per turn and fewer turns. This is likely to overheat due to higher current.
                          CPC do sell a 0.2mm wire:

                          https://cpc.farnell.com/multicomp-pro/ecwo-2/35-36swg-enamelled-copper-wire/dp/CB01214?st=enamelled%20copper%20wire%20ecw0.2

                          Erring on thinner is higher resistance so less heating.

                          #823253
                          SillyOldDuffer
                          Moderator
                            @sillyoldduffer

                            Just a thought – Robert mentioned potting.  This is done because the wires move when the coil is energised, and the forces in a 24V 10A winding are strong enough to damage it.  Loose wires break due to metal fatigue or the insulation chafes.   Therefore wind tight enough to stop them moving and/or apply some glue as each layer is completed.

                            Not sure what the best glue is!  Not super-glue.  I smeared hot glue because it contains no solvents, but my sample size is too small, and the electromagnet too lightly stressed, to confirm it was a good choice. Hasn’t failed yet…

                            The old coil may have failed because a wire was able to move inside the winding enough to rub.  Potting is supposed to stop the movement and corrosion, but it doesn’t always penetrate completely.  Also, it keeps heat in which can cook the insulation if the coil left on for too long.  Modern magnet wire is much better than older wire – many improvements to the chemistry and how the insulation is applied without air-bubbles.

                            Dave

                            #823266
                            Wade Beatty
                            Participant
                              @wadebeatty78296

                              The wires were broken when i got it and taped off inside the enclosure, however the leads outside the coil were very very brittle so I can see how they were possibly broken during any maintenance. The coils were in clear epoxy, i have some casting epoxy that i will use. Believe me the potting was everywhere. The coil was very well made, but the choice of insulation on the leads coming out was poor, probably leading to failure due to brittleness.

                               

                              Having the spool 3d printed this weekend, will report on progress.

                              Any tips on where to purchase proper magnet wire?

                              Thanks to all

                              Wade

                              #823270
                              SillyOldDuffer
                              Moderator
                                @sillyoldduffer
                                On Wade Beatty Said:

                                …Any tips on where to purchase proper magnet wire?

                                Thanks to all

                                Wade

                                I get mine from brocott.co.uk

                                 

                                #823273
                                Grindstone Cowboy
                                Participant
                                  @grindstonecowboy

                                  >>>>>>>>>>>>>The 2.5mm is too thick. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

                                  Apologies – apparently the link in full changed when I edited it, but not the other one 🙁

                                  #823279
                                  Wade Beatty
                                  Participant
                                    @wadebeatty78296

                                    3d model for spool sent for fab, wire ordered.

                                    Thanks all

                                    Wade

                                    #823504
                                    Wade Beatty
                                    Participant
                                      @wadebeatty78296

                                      Epoxy melted out as much as possible. I think the coil was wound, then dipped in shelac, then potted in epoxy.

                                      20251104_161322

                                      #823505
                                      Wade Beatty
                                      Participant
                                        @wadebeatty78296

                                        The wires came out with some teasing. I bundled them in 25 wire bunches. 725 wraps.

                                        20251107_224501

                                        #823544
                                        Robert Atkinson 2
                                        Participant
                                          @robertatkinson2

                                          Looking good.
                                          What you describe is best practice. Wind coil on bobbin, vacuum impregnate with varnish and then epoxy pot that into the housing.
                                          Don’t worry too much about the exact number of turns. Neat winding is important. Making up a holder for the wire supply reel with a friction device to apply a bit of tension to the wire is well worth the effort.

                                          Robert.

                                          #823558
                                          Macolm
                                          Participant
                                            @macolm

                                            Remember you can get self bonding winding wire, though you need to be sure you have the means to do the process successfully. Although fully impregnated varnish (vacuumed) is likely best, nowadays quite a lot of motors use self bonding wire, apparently with adequate reliability and life.

                                            #825696
                                            Wade Beatty
                                            Participant
                                              @wadebeatty78296

                                              I made a mandril for holding my 3d printed spool and wound the 0.20mm (frogs hair) wire onto it today. It was a success. I wrapped then soldered the wires to the coil wire, then protected the solder joints with heat shrink. It was very fine work for my ham shapped hands but seems good. The coil measures 52 ohms which is in the area expected. I am sure Lenz was able to control the wrapping and get more wire on their spool. Tomorrow some Sikaflex to seal the wire exit then pour the epoxy.

                                              My son held back tension with his index finger while I guided the wire layers on the spool. Lathe was set to 77 rpm.

                                              What would i do different next time? I have enough wire.

                                              • A thiner flanged spool so that I could get more wire on it.
                                              • Print the spool in white for contrast, also the fitting filing and sanding would not make it look so dirty
                                              • Drill holes around the top flange (axially) for epoxy filling
                                              • Get some shellac for final filling

                                              All in all I am satisfied, thanks for all the suggestions

                                              20251122_145651

                                              20251122_145712

                                              Messenger_creation_FD19075E-685F-444B-9BF5-A5304D66F35A

                                              20251122_161006

                                              #825697
                                              Wade Beatty
                                              Participant
                                                @wadebeatty78296

                                                The spool looks very dirty but it is just the file and sandpaper scratches

                                                #825706
                                                SillyOldDuffer
                                                Moderator
                                                  @sillyoldduffer
                                                  On Wade Beatty Said:

                                                  I made a mandril for holding my 3d printed spool and wound the 0.20mm (frogs hair) wire onto it today. It was a success…

                                                   

                                                  What would i do different next time? I have enough wire.

                                                  • Print the spool in white for contrast, also the fitting filing and sanding would not make it look so dirty
                                                  • Drill holes around the top flange (axially) for epoxy filling
                                                  • Get some shellac for final filling

                                                  Well done!

                                                  Printing a white spool is a good idea.  All my coils were wound on yellow by accident! Next time I shall do white deliberately.

                                                  🙂

                                                  Dave

                                                  #825975
                                                  Wade Beatty
                                                  Participant
                                                    @wadebeatty78296

                                                    Now the coil has been potted with casting epoxy. I warmed a steel plate and kept it warm with my heat gun during initial epoxy curing and monitored the temp.

                                                    20251123_185734

                                                    #825978
                                                    Robert Atkinson 2
                                                    Participant
                                                      @robertatkinson2

                                                      Looks really good.

                                                      Well done 🙂

                                                    Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 27 total)
                                                    • Please log in to reply to this topic. Registering is free and easy using the links on the menu at the top of this page.

                                                    Latest Replies

                                                    Viewing 25 topics - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)
                                                    Viewing 25 topics - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)

                                                    View full reply list.