Solar panel

Solar panel

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  • #813042
    duncan webster 1
    Participant
      @duncanwebster1

      Having had difficulty with trees overshadowing our solar panel we’ve finally moved it. How do I test it? On open circuit it gives just over 20v. Interweb suggests just plugging an ammeter across the output, but it’s a 200W panel so potentially will give well over 10A like that. It’s normally connected to a battery charger but if I get no amps it could be either panel gone high resistance or charger. Is it worth covering half of it up and putting a headlight bulb across the output? I’m almost tempted by a bucket of salty water and two electrodes!

      #813067
      not done it yet
      Participant
        @notdoneityet

        Generally speaking, the merest of shadow on the panel will mean the loss of most of the panel power.

        Checking the OCV and CCV, in good sunlight, should indicate the panel is OK.  The specs will be on the back of the panel.

        #813079
        duncan webster 1
        Participant
          @duncanwebster1

          CCV? If the output is shorted there is no voltage?

          #813082
          peak4
          Participant
            @peak4
            On duncan webster 1 Said:

            CCV? If the output is shorted there is no voltage?

            CCV under load I suspect was the intention of the comment.
            i.e. Close/Complete the Circuit to a partially discharged battery and measure the Voltage accross the battery open circuit and again whilst charging.
            I’m assuming it’s a 12v battery, so nominally charging at something like 14v; 200W suggests a max charge current of about 14A in full sunlight, but I can’t imagine it would give that on a cloudy day.
            You could always put a 10A ammeter in series, twixt battery and panel, after partially covering the panel with a sheet of cardboard, then gradually slide it off whilst observing the charge current variation.

            Bill

            #813090
            martin haysom
            Participant
              @martinhaysom48469
              On duncan webster 1 Said:

              I’m almost tempted by a bucket of salty water and two electrodes!

              not a good idea. gives off dodgy fumes

              #813282
              not done it yet
              Participant
                @notdoneityet
                On duncan webster 1 Said:

                CCV? If the output is shorted there is no voltage?

                The panel has resistance, so that is the load.  They would not quote the CCV for every panel if it was always zero!

                #813289
                Bazyle
                Participant
                  @bazyle

                  Connect to battery as normal and you will see the voltage go up as a charge is put into it. If there is a controller in circuit and it is fully charged it may ‘turn off’ so just take some power from the battery for a few minutes to drop the voltage and it wi start chargibg again, Then when it is in charge mode again you can try covering bits up.
                  To get an idea of how much power is available with a low current capable meter make your own shunt with a bit of iron fence wire or a nail when the state of charge is high enough to have reduced the charge current to about 5 amps Measure the voltage across your shunt and that represents 5 amps but keep the shunt cool in a bucket of clean water. You can then get an idea of higher currents as you draw more power from the battery on a sunny day.

                  #813290
                  Stuart Smith 5
                  Participant
                    @stuartsmith5

                    You could use an energy monitor like this:

                    https://lowenergysupermarket.com/product/battery-monitor/

                    You can get a 20amp or 100amp version. The 100amp one has a current shunt.

                    I fitted one to my 5” battery loco and can recommend it.

                    Stuart

                    #813309
                    duncan webster 1
                    Participant
                      @duncanwebster1

                      I can’t get to the track now till next week because of a ‘music’ festival. I live 4 miles away and it still keeps me awake.

                      I still don’t understand CCV. If it means close circuit voltage that implies just shorting the output, so there is no voltage to measure. If it means voltage when loaded that will depend on load. Does it mean voltage when producing rated power?

                      I’ve obviously connected the panel to the controller and battery. If the battery voltage doesn’t increase there are 3 possible faults. Another club member has come up with a 20A meter, that’s next week’s job.

                      I like the energy monitor thing, thanks, I’ll probably be buying one of those

                       

                      #813383
                      Julie Ann
                      Participant
                        @julieann

                        A solar panel has an I-V curve that is approximately rectangular. Let V be on the x-axis and I on the y-axis. Maximum output current is at zero output volts, ie, on the y-axis. As the output voltage increases the current output decreases slowly until a knee is reached. After the knee the output current falls quickly until it reaches zero at maximum output voltage, ie, on the x-axis.

                        So measuring open circuit voltage and short curcuit current is an acceptable way of proving that a panel works.

                        Of course the maximum current point and the maximum voltage point result in zero output power, and output power is what we are actually interested in. In between maximum current and maximum voltage there is a point of maximum power output, usually around the knee just as the current begins to fall. Quality chargers implement MPPT (maximum power point tracking) that for any given environmental condition adapts the charger input such that maximum power is extracted from the solar panel.

                        Julie

                        #813384
                        peak4
                        Participant
                          @peak4
                          On duncan webster 1 Said:

                          I can’t get to the track now till next week because of a ‘music’ festival. I live 4 miles away and it still keeps me awake.

                          I still don’t understand CCV. If it means close circuit voltage that implies just shorting the output, so there is no voltage to measure. If it means voltage when loaded that will depend on load. Does it mean voltage when producing rated power?

                          I’ve obviously connected the panel to the controller and battery. If the battery voltage doesn’t increase there are 3 possible faults. Another club member has come up with a 20A meter, that’s next week’s job.

                          I like the energy monitor thing, thanks, I’ll probably be buying one of those

                           

                          An AI Google search reveals this comment, though my earlier one still seems relevant, as you probably should measure charge and float voltages, appropriate to the battery technology if testing one yourself.
                          Battery manufacturers such as Odyssey are quite specific about their needs.
                          AI Overview
                          Measuring the Output Power of a Solar Panel
                          CCV in the context of solar panels refers to Constant Voltage (CV) mode in a solar charge controller, where it regulates charging to a set voltage to prevent battery damage.
                          It’s not a direct panel measurement like Open Circuit Voltage (Voc) or Short Circuit Current (Isc); rather, it’s a system-level function that monitors and adjusts battery voltage.
                          To measure a solar panel’s voltage, use a multimeter set to DC voltage, connect it to the panel’s leads in sunlight, and disconnect it from the battery and charge controller first to get the Voc
                          .”

                          Also points to this video amongst several others

                          Regarding DC clamp ammeters, when my 30+ year old Heme-600 died last year, I bought one of these.
                          Yes I’m sure Fluke and others are better, but this seems to work for my own needs, though mine came from a different vendor; I do have a wide variety of other high quality digital and analogue multimeters.
                          https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/356500144334
                          Other sources are available, some considerably cheaper if you search around, but I wanted a UK seller.

                          Bill

                          #813398
                          duncan webster 1
                          Participant
                            @duncanwebster1

                            That makes more sense, thanks

                            #813421
                            Michael Gilligan
                            Participant
                              @michaelgilligan61133

                              A very impressive meter there, Bill … thanks for the links.

                              MichaelG.

                              #820251
                              duncan webster 1
                              Participant
                                @duncanwebster1

                                Still having fun with this! we moved the panel to get it more in the sun, and have changed the controller to one of these. It appears I have to set it up, options being sealed, GL, Flood and some lithium which are of no further interest. we have several batteries to choose from, one of which I would describes a sealed, 2 are car batteries (are these flood?), and I’ve no idea what GL means. Anyone any wiser than me?

                                OK I know a lot of people are, specifically on this topic!

                                #820256
                                Bazyle
                                Participant
                                  @bazyle

                                  GL is a gel battery so the acid is made into a gel so it doesn’t slosh around but also can’t vent gas so easily so needs more careful charging, like a sealed battery. If your battery has filler plugs it is a flood which all car batteries used to be but not always for the last 20 years.

                                  #820267
                                  Paul Lousick
                                  Participant
                                    @paullousick59116

                                    I use one of these power meters to monitor volts, amps and watts on my solar system that I take camping. Use it on the input and output of the solar controller to see its efficiency. They are inexpensive and available on ebay, Amazon, etc.

                                     

                                    pOWER METER

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