Myford M Type tailstock alignment

This topic has 23 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 11 October 2020 at 22:52 by Chris V.

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10 October 2020 at 10:00 #500495
Chris V
Participant
@chrisv
Good morning all,

I have finally mounted up my Myford M type and have found the tailstock is a tad out of alignment.
I have been looking at test bars, the 1MT to fit this lathe seem only to have 4" or 100mm of straight, plus the MT section. Could someone please explain how you go about aligning the tailstock? test bar in the tailstock? Some other method between centres?
Not having experience of this I'd have thought a longer bar between centres would be the way to go, but I just don't know?

Chris.
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10 October 2020 at 10:00 #27694
Chris V
Participant
@chrisv
How to go about it please?
10 October 2020 at 13:56 #500535
Ady1
Participant
@ady1
I just line up a couple of dead centre points for general work

Unless you have a brand new machine then the bed will be worn and the error varies with distance

Use a DTI for more accurate work

Only do mega-accuracy when you have to, especially on an old hobby machine

GL

edit: The AK47 rattles like a box of screws when you shake it because of the tolerances… but it's apparently been quite a successful and reliable product, high accuracy isn't always required
10 October 2020 at 15:29 #500552
Bazyle
Participant
@bazyle
The only thing a Morse test bar is necessary for is checking that the morse socket is aligned with the spindle bearings. Nothing else and you can do that with a DTI anyway. If you put a round bar in the 3 jaw and gently turn a little off the eaxtremity it will be by definition aligned with the spindle over that bit. You can then compare that to the periphery of your tailstock barrel with a DTI top an side. Helps to make the turned portion the same dia as the barrel but not essential.

Bear in mind next time you sneeze it will go out of alignment so don't sweat over it.
10 October 2020 at 15:56 #500557
Chris V
Participant
@chrisv
Thanks Ady1, thats a fair point well made.

Thanks Bazyle, ok I will leave off buying a test bar for now. Yes I don't think dropping the tailstock on the bench helps either…oops!

Chris.
10 October 2020 at 16:17 #500562
David George 1
Participant
@davidgeorge1
Hi Chris I use a dial indicator mounted on a piece of bar in the chuck. I put it on to a center or inside the Morse taper.

When you rotate the spindle it will show the amount you are in error and it is easy to adjust sideways . You should always put in a piece steel in the chuck and turn it parrallel to check headstock for misalignment without a center.

David

Edited By David George 1 on 10/10/2020 16:22:36
10 October 2020 at 16:42 #500566
Chris V
Participant
@chrisv
Hi David,

Ah thank you, I like it!

I got a second hand dial indicator, when I depress the tip the needle appears a bit sticky, is this normal or should I be looking for a better one would you say?

Chris.
10 October 2020 at 16:59 #500568
David George 1
Participant
@davidgeorge1
Hi Chris if the needle sticks it won't tell you if it is true or not. What make is it perhaps a bit of a clean will help. I had one which stuck sometimes and a soak in a cleaning solvent and a good vigorous work at the same time worked wonders after it dried out. If not perhaps a new one?

David
10 October 2020 at 17:24 #500576
Chris V
Participant
@chrisv
Thanks David,

Yes that's what I thought but thought i'd best check! I will post photos later or in the morning, I think I have two types with different tips…

Chris.
11 October 2020 at 09:03 #500689
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
If you can find an alignment bar that is accurately centred at both ends, Tailstock alignment can be checked by mounting the bar between centres and adjusting the Tailstock until the DTI reading is the same at both ends.

Yoiu can make your own alignment bar by taking the largest diameter of bar, prefereably silver stee, or prcision ground bar. The bar is passed therough the hedastock mto leave very small length sticking out of the 4 jaw chuck. The chuck is adjusted to centre the bar to the level of accuracy which you consider acceptable. This procedure is then repeated for the other end of the bar. You then have your alignment bar.

Mount between centres and align the tailstock, .

If the bar is slender, as it will be for a 1 or 2 MT Headstok bore, use only minimal end load on the centres to avoid introducing any bend.

Howard
11 October 2020 at 10:22 #500706
Chris V
Participant
@chrisv
Good morning David & Howard,

So attached are my two second hand indicators, the larger one is a bit sticky but if the plunger is part depressed then actually it seems ok. The Verdict one has a different tip?

Howard, thank you something like this was in the back of my mind. Its the small bore size creating the issue in my head at least, you would think there is a market for between centres test bars especially for those with smaller lathes but I cannot locate one online?? I was wondering if to make one if I got a larger dia ground bar say 1" or so, one end in the 3 or 4 jaw chuck and then centred the far end say 12" long accurately within a fixed steady, drill the centre and then reverse the bar and centre drill the other end. Does this seem a reasonable way to do it?

Chris.
11 October 2020 at 10:33 #500711
Nicholas Farr
Participant
@nicholasfarr14254
Hi Chris, this test bar has centres at both ends and the parallel part should be long enough to test for centre alignment 1 MT Test bar

Regards Nick.
11 October 2020 at 11:47 #500733
Chris V
Participant
@chrisv
Hi Nick,

Thank you yes I have found plenty of these but I'm after a longer one around 12". Have found one in Ali this morning but I shall not be buying that, must be a steel one somewhere?!

Regards Chris.
11 October 2020 at 12:35 #500751
David George 1
Participant
@davidgeorge1
Hi Chris the verdict DTI woulc be perfect to set the center. How good is the chuck on your lathe if it is reasonable ie within a few thousands of on inch you can put piece of 20 mm steel in the chuck and just turn it parallel with a sharp tool and measure it end to end and see what you get.

David

Edited By David George 1 on 11/10/2020 12:35:34
11 October 2020 at 14:12 #500780
Chris V
Participant
@chrisv
Thanks David, good to know about the Verdict one, I shall take a closer look at getting that set up. I don't know as yet about the chuck, once I got the lathe running the one thing I noticed was the tailstock being out so was concentrating on that. With the method you just describe how much metal protruding from the chuck would you suggest given no tailstock is being employed?

I was just re acquainting myself with L H Sparey's The Amateurs Lathe and see the method I suggested using a fixed steady above is described in the text, so I must have remembered that! Also a method without using a test dial but a sharp tool in the toolpost and a sheet of white paper to aid seeing whats what,…this could be more my level right now! (-:

For checking the dia of a turned piece, is a micrometer (which I have not got) the correct tool or a digital Vernier caliper?

Chris.
11 October 2020 at 14:24 #500783
Chris V
Participant
@chrisv
Hi again David, I just realised you didn't actually say don't use the tailstock, I just assumed!

Thanks

Chris.
11 October 2020 at 15:14 #500789
David George 1
Participant
@davidgeorge1
Hi Chris I just noticed you havn't got a micromiter. I have a spare 0 to 1 inch if you want it I have dropped you a message with my email addresses. I couldn't work without one to get things accurate you will struggle with a caliper.

David
11 October 2020 at 15:34 #500792
Bazyle
Participant
@bazyle
The plunger type of dti can suffer from gooey oil on the sliding portion. As mentioned try a little solvent. If you feel inclined to oil it don't use slideway oil, preferably use minimal clock oil which is designed to not dry out.
11 October 2020 at 15:43 #500795
roy entwistle
Participant
@royentwistle24699
All you need is two centres and a magnifying glass. Years ago we turned a centre in the chuck, put a hard centre in the tailstock and trapped a steel rule between the points
11 October 2020 at 16:19 #500803
Chris V
Participant
@chrisv
Thanks Bazyle, yes good point, I have some light sewing machine oil I can use.

Thanks Roy, the rule trick is how I found out it was out of line! Compound magnifying glass is already on order (-: plus another for spare for when I cannot find the compound one!

Chris.
11 October 2020 at 17:26 #500823
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
Whereabouts are you Chris? In UK I hope.

One of us could get a piece of sturdy, say 1" dia Sillver steel (which will be 13" long ) and make one for you if you like. My lathe will pass 1" through the Headstock. The larger diameter will be stiffer and less likely to bend with any pressure from the centres, or to sag under its own weight..

If its not too far, you could come and see the whole process, if you wanted It shouldn't take too long

Or maybe someone closer to you would do it.

But you need not to be claustrophobic, or fastidious!

Howard..

Edited By Howard Lewis on 11/10/2020 17:26:43
11 October 2020 at 17:29 #500825
Chris V
Participant
@chrisv
Hi Howard,

I'm in Somerset. Are you offering? (-: If so yes please and let me know how much….

Chris.
11 October 2020 at 21:48 #500877
Mark Gould 1
Participant
@markgould1
Posted by Chris V on 11/10/2020 11:47:03:

Hi Nick,

Thank you yes I have found plenty of these but I'm after a longer one around 12". Have found one in Ali this morning but I shall not be buying that, must be a steel one somewhere?!

Regards Chris.

Edge Technology sell one. Not cheap but a nice bit of kit. I’d lend you mine but shipping from NL to you would make it cheaper for you to buy one yourself Chris.

https://www.machine-dro.co.uk/lathe-tailstock-to-headstock-alignment-gauge-bar-from-edge-technology

Mark

Edited By Mark Gould 1 on 11/10/2020 21:49:15
11 October 2020 at 22:52 #500886
Chris V
Participant
@chrisv
Hi Mark, thanks for this but its the Ali (Aluminium) one I found this morning. If it were steel I'd go for it but seems way too much to me for Ali. Also found a steel one on eBay but its from India, so that's another no go, once bitten and all that.

Looks like I may have to have a go at making one, or maybe a set utilising a fixed steady to hold the free end for centre drilling. I'm thinking a spot drill will be better for the actual drilled depression rather than a centre drill.

Chris.
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