Button head screws

This topic has 21 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 27 May 2017 at 15:59 by Graham Williams 5.

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26 May 2017 at 15:01 #25261
Graham Williams 5
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@grahamwilliams5
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26 May 2017 at 15:01 #299693
Graham Williams 5
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@grahamwilliams5
Have been searching the web all day looking for 6BA button head screws, preferably 1/2" long, without any luck. Does anyone know where I might get a few? Cheers Graham W.
26 May 2017 at 15:30 #299695
Speedy Builder5
Participant
@speedybuilder5
These guys do M2 Button heads ?
**LINK**
26 May 2017 at 15:34 #299696
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
If you did go Metric then M3 are a lot closer to size than M2, 4-40UNC would be the closest to 6BA and they are not too hard to find

As for 6BA about as much chance as treading in unicorn poo

Edited By JasonB on 26/05/2017 15:47:07
26 May 2017 at 15:38 #299697
Speedy Builder5
Participant
@speedybuilder5
And these ?
**LINK**
26 May 2017 at 17:10 #299703
MW
Participant
@mw27036
don't know if they will do BA but orbital fasteners do a lot of button screws in various sizes.

Michael W
26 May 2017 at 17:28 #299707
Graham Williams 5
Participant
@grahamwilliams5
Unicorn poo……. always was rocking horse poo in my day lol. guess the unicorn type is rarer. Got to be 6BA, they're for a recently acquired ETA 15d model airplane engine that I have which has mixed type of heads on the screws holding the front and back-plates on at the moment, it runs well but……………………………………………….. Will try Orbital fasteners, thanx Michael. Cheers GW
26 May 2017 at 17:29 #299709
Enough!
Participant
@enough
Posted by JasonB on 26/05/2017 15:34:46:

……… as much chance as treading in unicorn poo

Or as the saying around here has it: as much chance as trying to stuff butter up a porcupine's … er … rear-end …. with a red-hot needle.
26 May 2017 at 17:33 #299710
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Graham, would they have originally been Hex button Heads? I know when Ramon has made his ETA replicas he makes his own slotted screws which are more of a filaster head. Though he has also used some nice looking cros sheads too

Edited By JasonB on 26/05/2017 17:37:02
26 May 2017 at 18:16 #299717
Graham Williams 5
Participant
@grahamwilliams5
Jason. Those ETA engines that Ramon made and the others are something else again. Just want all the screws to look the same and be tidy but not Hex or single slotted head so searched for anything 6BA other than those types without success, didn't find any cross head type either but they would be good if they're out there somewhere. Don't know what the originals would have looked like as its 58 years since I bought my one and only new one when I was a kid, totalled that one, the cranks weren't to strong on the Mk 1's, do you know what Ramon used thread wise on his engines, presume as they were 2 x size they're a bigger thread? Cheers Graham W.
26 May 2017 at 18:22 #299718
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
They are 5cc which works out about 1.2:1 as it is te volume that is increased so the actual dims are teh cube route of that.

I was going to e-mail Ramon about something else so I'll ask him about screws.
26 May 2017 at 18:31 #299721
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
Looking at google either pan head or a flatter and more 'buttony' button head seems to be original. DC certainly used pan head.
26 May 2017 at 18:40 #299725
alan-lloyd
Participant
@alan-lloyd
The originals were cross head domed screws, according to mike clanfords book
26 May 2017 at 19:08 #299732
MW
Participant
@mw27036
Posted by alan lloyd 3 on 26/05/2017 18:40:13:

The originals were cross head domed screws, according to mike clanfords book

I've noticed they seem to be popular on all the old instruments I've got.

Michael W
26 May 2017 at 19:21 #299734
John Gardener
Participant
@johngardener91897
Cheese head any good?

**LINK**
26 May 2017 at 19:22 #299735
John Gardener
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@johngardener91897
**LINK**
26 May 2017 at 19:30 #299737
Martin W
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@martinw
Hi

Anything here of use they do Round Head Pozi which at least isn't slotted.

Cheers

Martin W
26 May 2017 at 20:20 #299742
Ramon Wilson
Participant
@ramonwilson3
Hello Graham, I rarely visit these days but today I did and saw this thread.

The original screws – on the crankcase fixings, front and rear, were Philips round head – I believe they were 6 BA but as Jason remarks there's very little likelyhood of any being produced today. I could not source true Philips head in any thread form when I did my engines so used Philips Pan heads and reformed the head to a dome shape to replicate the original. I can't remember the exact thread size I used off the top of my head but it was definitely UNC (5-32 poss?) which were the only ones I could find that would do the job.

Reforming – if you want to replicate the original is probably your only option save finding some originals squirreled away by someone. However an easier option would be to source 6BA caphead screws which were often used to replace the originals once the head was deformed and would be quite correct for the period.

Hope that helps – enjoy running your 15, I've just been given a lovely ED Hunter that needs just a clean before getting the diesel out

Look forward to hearing from you in due course Jason – hope you are well

Regards – Ramon

Edited By Ramon Wilson on 26/05/2017 20:23:42
26 May 2017 at 21:20 #299747
Graham Williams 5
Participant
@grahamwilliams5
Thanks for all your help guys, the link Martin W provided looks promising, the round head pozi is worth pursuing, thanks Martin. I'm not after 100% original just want it tidy. Think 6ba capheads are available as Ramon suggests but one might interfere with the spraybar in that to get one in on the needle side would have to move the backplate back and then would need to seal the crankcase/backplate joint again and hope that I could maintain the rotor engagement with the crankpin. Don't know why Ramon, always had a soft spot for the ETA, took a lot of scratting to get the money to buy one in the early 60's, went that way coz all the older guys were into open power and were using ETA 29s, sounded great, 15 handled well but was fragile so eventually went to Olivers with a brief flirtation with Rivers and PAWs. The ETAs you made look so good, as do the others that I've seen, as to the Hunter my only recollection of those, my mate had one, was the damage they caused to your finger, he always used a stick to start it. Got all the engines I had when I was a kid now, nostalgia again. The Oliver was destined for a Black Ghost as that was the pre-eminent model in my day and as I found the plans on a yankee site but has ended up in a Peacemaker instead, probably put one of the Rivers in one as well but not the ETA. Thanks again everyone. Cheers Graham W.
26 May 2017 at 21:38 #299748
Bob Stevenson
Participant
@bobstevenson13909
http://www.gwr-fasteners.co.uk/ba-screws-nuts–washers-1-c.asp

…..Some BA socket heads that look quite nice here.
27 May 2017 at 13:38 #299817
Ramon Wilson
Participant
@ramonwilson3
Sounds like we are of similar age and background Graham. I did not own an Eta ever but always desired one hence the interest in scaling them up as a ME project.

I did have an Olly later in life – another unaffordable desire in my youth and ran a Rivers 3.5 Silver Arrow for many years in various, mainly aerobatic models – now that was one well made engine.

I owed an ED Hunter in my teens for a short time but clipping the prop on the ground on a landing the case broke right around the sharp ridge on the front of the crankcase. I have always thought of this as a 'classic' design and recently scaled it to 5cc – not a huge difference in overall size but significant enough. The area mentioned above which houses the single ball race is very thin in cross section which is probably why it broke and yes you are right, it had a real reputation as a finger snapper and lived up to it!! I've also scaled up the German Jena 2cc – another great looking engine but haven't machined anything for quite some time – interest in actual machining is currently at an all time low I'm sorry to say.

Good luck with your 15d, maybe build a nice T/R for it?

Regards – Ramon

Edited By Ramon Wilson on 27/05/2017 13:40:23

Edited By Ramon Wilson on 27/05/2017 13:40:51
27 May 2017 at 15:59 #299834
Graham Williams 5
Participant
@grahamwilliams5
Hello Ramon. Going to put the ETA in a Dixielander but it will be a roof hanger in the workshop as chasing after those is a no no now LoL. Moved to free flight power, Pulteri, Dream Weaver come to mind and of course Fuller's classic, after the lure of combat petered out, most of the club members were into free flight anyway, no Team Racers in my club, eventually moving into A2 glider competitions, older bro. providing the transport, which are still in the loft in their travelling case. Nostalgia is a strange thing, think me and my/our generation had the last of the 'best of it'. Could fly without silencers, on the park and any common within bike range without any complaints, today it's totally different of course. Interest in the workshop waxes and wains with me also, engineering was never my field, but have reconditioned a few engines, new liners/pistons/spraybars etc.usually AM as they seem plentiful so a mistake is not to costly. Hope you regain the urge to get machining again, a 5cc Hunter would be a joy to see but I wouldn't want to start it LoL. Regards Graham W.
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