Is it model engineering ?

This topic has 19 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated 20 November 2012 at 19:58 by Steve Farthing.

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19 November 2012 at 09:45 #104111
Eric Cox
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@ericcox50497
Visiting model engineering exhibitions one sees models built from Meccano with movement provided by motors powering chain drives and complex gear trains.

On searching You Tube one finds models built from Lego Technic again models using movement powered in a simiar manner. The difference between the two is Meccano uses preformed metal components whist Lego uses preformed plastic components.

Can Lego be called "model engineering" and will we see Technic models exhibited in the future.
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19 November 2012 at 09:45 #22327
Eric Cox
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@ericcox50497
19 November 2012 at 10:29 #104115
MAC
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@mac53652
I would say a BIG yes. Never liked Meccano much (perhaps more to do with my age than anthing else), but was hooked on Lego for a long time – and still would be if I could get away with it! I think the Technic sets introduce many great ideas to young minds and should be viewed as a way to attract youngsters to engineering.

You see magnificent pieces such as the Rolls Royce Trent, Forth Rail Bridge etc……all very impressive, but to me it's things like this (i.e. buildable by a kid from his/her Lego box) that should be admired more:

Edited By MAC on 19/11/2012 10:31:30
19 November 2012 at 11:58 #104127
David Colwill
Participant
@davidcolwill19261
Does it matter, if they have taken time, care and ingenuity in making them?

Edited By David Colwill on 19/11/2012 11:59:14
19 November 2012 at 12:27 #104129
JA
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@ja
I suppose the real question is "What is model engineering?"

A question that I would dare not answer.
19 November 2012 at 12:31 #104131
jason udall
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@jasonudall57142
Is it engineering?…

Well …… many of us built to kits of castings and drawings , some scratch build to own designs, some wouldn't even use bought in fastners…

So to some its not engineering but It is to ME ( let the purists go fell the trees and make the charcoal and refine their own metals). all of us "stand on the shoulders of giants"……

Scenic modeling isn't for me either but it shows patience and skill, I would love to have.

Regards
19 November 2012 at 12:43 #104132
MICHAEL WILLIAMS
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@michaelwilliams41215
Science is the exploration of the great forces of nature for the good of mankind .

Engineering is the application of the great forces of nature for the good of mankind .

Model Engineering is the application of the smaller forces of nature for the good of kind men .

Michael Williams .
19 November 2012 at 13:18 #104134
jason udall
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@jasonudall57142
Posted by MICHAEL WILLIAMS on 19/11/2012 12:43:00:

Science is the exploration of the great forces of nature for the good of mankind .

Engineering is the application of the great forces of nature for the good of mankind .

Model Engineering is the application of the smaller forces of nature for the good of kind men .

Michael Williams .
19 November 2012 at 20:17 #104160
Nicholas Farr
Participant
@nicholasfarr14254
Hi, I guess you have to first understand the definitions of the two words. In our case.

MODEL: "1. A representation, usually smaller but built to scale, of a building or other structure. 2. A preliminary pattern or representation of an item not yet constructed, serving as the plan from which the finished work, usually larger, will be produced."

ENGINEERING: "1. The application of scientific principles to such practical ends as the design, construction, and operation of efficient and economical structures, equipment, and systems. 2. The profession of or the work performed by an engineer."

ENGINEER: "1. A person trained in, skilled at, or professionally engaged in a branch of engineering."

These quotes are taken from my dictionary, and are not totally exhuastive. I reckon if whatever you make, and with whatever from, as long as it can be recognised as meeting the definitions of Model and Engineering within the correct criteria, then I guess it can be classed as "model engineering"

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 19/11/2012 20:18:34
19 November 2012 at 22:19 #104168
Bazyle
Participant
@bazyle
It is a bit like the question of whether messing about with Excel is computer programming.
19 November 2012 at 23:38 #104175
John Stevenson 1
Participant
@johnstevenson1
Logically if it's not 12" to the foot then it's model.
20 November 2012 at 00:52 #104176
Andyf
Participant
@andyf
Not sure if Meccano models are really model engineering, but if it can inspire youngsters (without any real safety problems) then I'm all for it.

But I'd certainly class the item which Terryd gives a link to in a parallel thread as engineering, though it can't really be called a model. It certainly shows "ingenuity", a word which comes from the same root as "engineering".

Andy
20 November 2012 at 06:56 #104180
David Paterson 4
Participant
@davidpaterson4
do you rememebr the sketch from Blackadder about how much ground had been captured in the last campaign?

CAPT Darling had a model of the captured terrain about the size of a dinner table.

Asked about the scale, he replied 1:1

Good show, just introduced my teenagers to a bit last night. they loved it.

Dave

Edited By David Paterson 4 on 20/11/2012 06:57:19
20 November 2012 at 09:20 #104189
MICHAEL WILLIAMS
Participant
@michaelwilliams41215
When the original ' Model Engineer and Electrician ' magazine was founded over a hundred years ago the term Model Engineer as applied to hobbyists was probably unknown . Anything refered to as ' Model ' in those days was taken to be ' Ideal ' or ' Perfect '

The man that founded the magazine was very well read and I think that he recognised the possibilities of two possible interpretations of ' Model ' and deliberately planted a double meaning in the title .

So a reasonable interpretation of the true meaning of ' Model Engineering ' as he intended would be ' perfect engineering in miniature '

Edited By MICHAEL WILLIAMS on 20/11/2012 09:26:14
20 November 2012 at 10:21 #104199
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
Many socities include experimental, as well as model engineering, I consider my hot air engines as small engines, not models, and they are built for experimental work. Are Stuart Turner engines models. or small , and some not so small engines. The same would go for free lance Locomotives. Ian S C
20 November 2012 at 11:47 #104208
David Littlewood
Participant
@davidlittlewood51847
Ian,

ISTR that during WW2 Stuart Turner made some steam engine generator sets for SOE operatives to take to France so that they could power their radios in locations remote from any power supply. From memory of the photos I saw, they looked very similar to some of the current range of verticals (not the tiny ones obviously).

Also, some of the larger verticals are specifically sold as being capable of powering sizeable boats, and I think there are some on Windemere (or therabouts) which do actually use them.

David
20 November 2012 at 12:23 #104217
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
I think it was the SIRRUS vertical twin that was used on the generator for SOE radio gear, I think that one boiler that was used, was an army pressure cooker, the other onewas cast aluminium I think. Ian S C
20 November 2012 at 12:37 #104220
MICHAEL WILLIAMS
Participant
@michaelwilliams41215
Ian ,

Good pictures and two page article ME 19th. January 1990 . Vol 164 No 3865 .

Regards ,

Michael Williams .
20 November 2012 at 15:16 #104237
Sub Mandrel
Participant
@submandrel
Sirius. It was the late Ian Bradley who actaully designed the generator set, using standard Stuart castings.

Neil
20 November 2012 at 19:58 #104252
Steve Farthing
Participant
@stevefarthing68521
I would not classify myself as a model engineer. I guess I am more of an amateur engineer (and a radio amateur – but that's another story). There is nothing wrong with lego and meccano. A lot of professional engineers use both to try out ideas.

What i find a little worrying about a lot of the Model Engineering community is that it has very fixed ideas about what it is. Like a lot of traditional "craft" hobbies such as vintage motorcycle restoration, amateur radio and aeromodelling it is mostly done by people in their 50s and older many of who are very set in their ways. Before anyone asks I am 60, my father is a keen model engineer and he is in his 80s. I have a huge regard for the skills people have in building, say, a working scale model steam loco. But the average person will not have the time, money or workshop to do this. And for those that do there seems to be an inbuilt resistance to using "new technology" in their projects or any change to the hobby. The belief that "if it isn't made of metal and isn't mechanical it ain't engineering" persists.

This really is a golden age for the amateur engineer. The advent of microcontrollers and inexpensive sensors along with plastics and other modern materials has revolutionised what is possible. If you want to try out 3D printing you can build a printer from plans and parts available over the Internet. If you want to make a robot you can build one for less than £100, You can build a robot model aircraft for less than £300. Yes, it can fly itself. But to do all of these things you are going to have to learn some electronics and computer programming. Which after all are the backbone of modern engineering. And to be honest it's not that hard with modern systems and the setup costs for an modest workshop are small.

If you want to see what is happening in modern amateur engineering take a look at this link http://makeprojects.com . Notice the number of young people involved, the simplicity of some of the projects, the creativity and the use of recycled materials. I think these activities are the future for "model engineering". I fear that if the hobby does not change it will dissappear.

Thats enough ranting from me, I am now going to duck

Regards,

Steve
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