Workshops aids

This topic has 16 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 28 October 2017 at 19:46 by Bazyle.

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25 October 2017 at 11:33 #18716
larry Phelan
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@larryphelan54019
Workshop hoist
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25 October 2017 at 11:33 #323445
larry Phelan
Participant
@larryphelan54019
I have posted a few photos in my album of a hoist I made,based on one made by Dave Fenner some years ago.I was unable to get the same material as he used,but made do with what I could get.

The result worked out very well and has proved to be most useful for lifting heavy gear onto machine tables.

Main frame is 50×38 channel,along with 50×25 box tube..

Hope it might prove useful to someone else.
25 October 2017 at 12:10 #323448
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
Hope it might prove useful to someone else.

You selling it?
25 October 2017 at 12:47 #323454
Clive Foster
Participant
@clivefoster55965
Neat job Larry

From an amateur builders perspective the design can be criticised for feeding all the column loads into the simple welded butt joint at the bottom. OK if your welding skills and understanding of joint preparation are good but inexperienced, especially self taught, folk often overestimate their ability to produce a good strong joint. In retrospect some of my early efforts were, ahem, "somewhat marginal" strength-wise for such reasons. Fortunately hammer testing eliminated the seriously deficient efforts!

I'd add triangular gussets, 6" x 6" or thereabouts shouldn't get seriously in the way, to the outside of the joints. Preferably bent over on the long side and welded at the ends of the bent over part, gets rid of the sharp edge if nothing else. I'd also extend the the back bars a bit beyond the axle to nearly tyre inner diameter and add a strip or wire stay going about halfway up the column.

Recall seeing a similar commercial version bending quite alarmingly due to the lab erks taking a somewhat over optimistic view of its lift capability. Probably got the lb to kg conversion backwards! Two guys on the winch handle should have been a clue.

Clive.
25 October 2017 at 13:39 #323465
larry Phelan
Participant
@larryphelan54019
Thank you Clive,

T his is exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for,I am not a welder,and I can see where you,re coming from.

Gussets will be added very soon,but why the strips at the back?. This is the kind of thing which can be improved,or even remade [it was cheap enough to build anyway ] and most of it could be reused in a rebuild.

I am open to advice and suggestions in the interest of ending up with a better product and I would hope that anyone else thinking of building one would take all this into account. All you need is for it to fail once !

Again,thank you for your interest and advice and to Not done it yet—–No way am I selling it,I have enough sins to answer for !! Do consider building one,but include the Mods.
25 October 2017 at 14:04 #323469
vintagengineer
Participant
@vintagengineer
Triangulation is the word to remember when fabricating anything. Definitely need to add some either gussets or support stays to the back of the uprights.
25 October 2017 at 14:33 #323475
David Standing 1
Participant
@davidstanding1
Posted by larry Phelan on 25/10/2017 13:39:53:

Gussets will be added very soon,but why the strips at the back?.

The gussets on the upright to base only prevent the joint itself pulling under load, and everything above the gusset is still subject to a bending load from the loaded platform.

By adding a strut to the rear of the upright/base to a point halfway up the uprights, you triangulate up to this point, and either remove, or reduce drastically, the forward bending stresses the uprights are subjected to.
25 October 2017 at 16:40 #323492
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
When all the mods are carried out I would be testing it at up to something like 150% of the considered safe working load. Fitting a handle, which cannot overload the workings would be good, too.
25 October 2017 at 17:31 #323504
larry Phelan
Participant
@larryphelan54019
To he who said "Dont mention gussets", I say,Welcome to the club,do you think I,m like a ramrod?

Not anymore,alas !,but I,m still hanging in here [and dropping clangers ]

What do you expect at 80? The local smartarse thinks I came out of the ARK .

Could he be right?
26 October 2017 at 18:49 #323717
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
Work like many of the Victorian Engineers, " 1/2" should be about right, so let's make it 1" and be sure"

(Tay Bridge builders excepted of course)

Just think of modern trains passing over Brunel's maidenhead bridge, He got it right!

Howard
27 October 2017 at 13:44 #323896
larry Phelan
Participant
@larryphelan54019
To all who commented on my project,please accept my thanks. This was the kind of feedback I needed,the mods suggested by Clive have been attended to and have caused me to look again at the whole unit.

Dave Fenner did say that he had checked out his design and was happy with his findings,but I,ve no doubt that he is a better welder than I am. Were I to make another one,I would make some changes.

A I would extend the side members of the bottom frame by another 2" at least and move the uprights forward by 1 or 2" in order to provide more room for the rear strut..I would also make the gussets longer in the base so as to extend fore and aft of the uprights.

B It might be no harm to fit gussets to the inside of the lifting frame,where they would not get in the way.

These mods might reduce the area of the table by a small amount,but I think it,s big enough to cope with most workshop loads. The material Dave used was 2x1x1/8 U section,which I was unable to get,so I used 50x38x4mm channel. This makes the entire unit a bit heavier,but since it,s on wheels,this should not be an issue.

One other thing did occur to me,would it be worth while to include another pulley where the cable joins the frame,so as to end up with a two cord system,as seen on some hoists?.This would help to reduce the speed of table and give better control. Just a thought !

Again, my thanks to all and if anyone else is thinking of making one,take all this into account.
27 October 2017 at 15:27 #323911
Gray62
Participant
@gray62
Which issue of which magazine was the Dave Fenner version featured in ?
27 October 2017 at 16:34 #323919
Bazyle
Participant
@bazyle
Larry, Would it be possible to have some detail photos please? Especially when you add the mods.

I like the idea and need to practice my welding.
Are you using ball bearings as wheels in the channel?
I guess the idea is that the platform fits between the base legs at the bottom. How would things go with a more solid rear member and an open front on the base to allow straddling eg table legs to set the load on the table.
Then perhaps plain front wheels instead of castors to allow the platform right down. You can use skid steer since you can tilt it back like a sack arrow to relieve the load on the wheels.
I'd like to be able to get really low, like the sheet plate on a sack barrow to get under stuff flat on the floor. At least to lift a side then block it up before getting right under with a thicker platform like you have. I wonder if the platform horizontal could be angel iron with a sheet between. This would give a problem sometimes with wider items resting on two 'sharp' bars so I would have a wood fill-in when required.
27 October 2017 at 18:15 #323941
larry Phelan
Participant
@larryphelan54019
Hi,

To both members who are interested in the hoist,I first saw it in issue no 133,Christmas 2007.][Takes me a while to get around to things ]

Yes,I got around to your way of thinking also,regarding getting the table down to ground level. You would need to change the design somewhat,but it could be done,it,s food for thought ! I will take another few pictures although the only difference is that I have fitted gussets and stays,the rest is as I posted.

Regarding the rollers,no,I did not use bearings. Dave used old sash weights,I used 2" round and turned a slight taper on them,since I was using channel and the inside of that is tapered. I found that by setting the top slide off by 3 deg,that was enough to suit the profile of the channel. I think roller bearings would be an overkill for something like this,and the proof is that it works very well. This is not something which is going to be uses 24/7/365,so I consider it,s "Fit for purpose"

By posting this,in the first place,I learned a great deal,from comments and advice from other members. You should bear all this in mind when you begin your build. I would be a lot wiser second time around.

There is plenty of room here for development. I may not go that rout since I am happy enough with what I have,but there,s no need for anyone else to stop here,that,s what it,s all about !

I look forward to see what comes out of all this.
28 October 2017 at 11:11 #324063
larry Phelan
Participant
@larryphelan54019
Hi Bazle,

Just reading through your Post again,some good ideas there. Regarding extending the bottom frame rearwards,unless you move the wheels back as well,it might prove difficult to tilt it,and even then it might not be easy. Just a thought ! I am not really interested in tilting mine since if it fell back on top of me,I would never get out of the way in time,so I prefer to let it go around "on all fours" My shop floor is smooth finish and the outside is tarmac so tilting is not an issue.

I will take a few more pictures over the weekend [am working on two more projects and want to keep them moving ]

If you wish,I could Email you with several pictures and details and answer any questions you may have.
28 October 2017 at 12:14 #324081
larry Phelan
Participant
@larryphelan54019
Bazle

Have posted a few more pictures,hope they help. The u section is a piece of the channel I used and the round piece is the first roller I made,but the taper was wrong. This was corrected for the next four. No need for a fine finish on these. The bore is 16mm,.The main wheels are from Amazon. All shafts are 16mm round BMS.
28 October 2017 at 19:46 #324161
Bazyle
Participant
@bazyle
Thanks Larry, interesting stuff
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