What oil to use on a Grayson lathe

[Nev WhitehurstParticipant @nevwhitehurst53938]

Hi I have just purchased a Grayson lathe and I’m wondering what oil to use for the bearings thank you

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

32 or 37 grade hydraulic oil. I think Machine Mart sell it in small quantities.

In reality it doesn’t much matter, lots of people just use car engine oil

[Nev WhitehurstParticipant @nevwhitehurst53938]

Thank you Duncan

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

This type of question often comes up, a hydraulic oil or Mineral car engine oil will work. Modern synthetic car engine oils are expensive and for our purpose not needed, being formulated for a completely different job. For those to whom number matter then using SAE 10 or 30 For ISO system then 32 or 68. DO NOT mix the 2 systems. Good luck. Noel.

[Nev WhitehurstParticipant @nevwhitehurst53938]

Thank you Noel

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

Depending on what type of bearings your Grayson lathe has. Some alloy’s of bronze and yellow metals aren’t compatible with some high detergent motor oils. If you do decide to use a motor oil, then a plain non detergent type would be the best choice.

[Nev WhitehurstParticipant @nevwhitehurst53938]

<p style=”text-align: left;”>Thank you Pete . Someone gave me some klubersynth gh 6-220 oil I’ve read up on it and it says it’s good for the bearings, as far as I know the bearings are bronze on my lathe . This is the details about the klubersynth oil</p>

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

👍

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

The klubersynth gh 6-220 oil is NOT suitable for the headstock bearings of this lathe. It is far too viscous. It’s a ISO 220 oil. You need a thin oil, typically ISO 32. The classic oil was Nuto32 but any plain ISO 32 “hydraulic” oil will be OK. This is used in industrial machines, excavators etc. Can be hard to find “branded” oil in small quanties from dealers but lots of sellers on ebay etc.
It ia also used in hydraulic jacks so “jack oil” from a motor factor machine mart etc will do.

Noel mentions 68 grade oil. That is also too heavy for the headstock. It’s normally used on the gears and slideways.  The Kluber 200 would do for those too if you already have it.

Your lathe is very similat to Myfords so oils reccomended for thoase will be OK.

Robert.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

If you have someone who repairs JCBs near you they will often part with a couple of litres for a contribution to the tea fund

Take your own container

[Pete]

On Pete Said:

Depending on what type of bearings your Grayson lathe has. Some alloy’s of bronze and yellow metals aren’t compatible with some high detergent motor oils. If you do decide to use a motor oil, then a plain non detergent type would be the best choice.

Motor oils are just fine for yellow metals. Most motors have bronze small-end rod bushings, camshaft bearings etc. Non Detergent motor oils haven’t been commonly available for decades.

It’s the sulphur in some gear oils that can attack yellow metals.

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

While your correct about the sulfur in especially automotive differential oils, there’s also sulfur and alkaline chemistry in ‘some’ high detergent motor oils. Since it’s not exactly easy to know for sure what may or may not be in the more modern automotive engine oil additives, I wouldn’t risk it.

[Pete]

1. On Pete Said:

   While your correct about the sulfur in especially automotive differential oils, there’s also sulfur and alkaline chemistry in ‘some’ high detergent motor oils. Since it’s not exactly easy to know for sure what may or may not be in the more modern automotive engine oil additives, I wouldn’t risk it.

   <p style=”text-align: left;”>So what do you put it n your car engine, which almost certainly has bronze bushings in it?  I know mine does, and I use whatever motor oil is on sale at the local shop.</p>

   Gear oils not suitable for yellow metals carry a warning on the label. Ive yet to see motor oil carry such a warning.

[Nev WhitehurstParticipant @nevwhitehurst53938]

Thank you all for your comments . Yesterday I flushed out the old oil and after it was coming out clear I left it for a couple of hours and added the klubersynth gh 6-220 oil , I noticed more or less straight away how quietly it was running than it was before plus it doesn’t disappear from the oil wells as it was with a much thinner oil . I suppose time will tell if it was the right thing to do or not but I’ve had it running for around an hour this morning and it is still quiet and running smoothly plus the oil in the wells hasn’t disappeared like it was before and I’m not getting any spray off it as before with the thinner oil . So hopefully it is doing the job intended . Thanks again for all your advice and suggestions on this matter

[alecsParticipant @alecs]

Yes it will flow slower, and possibly fill the gap in worn bearings.

That ISO 220 Klubersynth gear oil is equivalent viscosity to SAE 90 gear oil or SAE 50 engine oil.

The recommended ISO 32 hydraulic oil is equivalent viscosity to SAE 10 motor oil. Quite a difference from 50 weight.

Keep an eye on it and make sure some oil is coming out of the bearings and the level in the oil caps drops some over a few hours. Especially in winter.

 

[Nev WhitehurstParticipant @nevwhitehurst53938]

Hi Alecs . There is oil coming out from the bearings and the level has dropped but not as it was with the other oil I was given with the lathe . As soon as I put the other oil in it was disappearing within a minute and was spraying out from the bushes but now it is a gradual process and although I can see the oil each side of the bearings it’s not spraying out as beforehand so it looks like it’s doing the job

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

It sounds like your headstock bearings are badly worn. ISO 32 oil should not run straight out. Using heavy oil cures the symptoms but not the cause…

Robert.

[Nev WhitehurstParticipant @nevwhitehurst53938]

Hi Robert , I had a mate look at it before I brought it and he said the bearings are good without play . The oil I got with it is like water it just goes down very quickly . The klubersynth oil is going down but really slowly , I can see the oil just on the edge of the bearings but it’s not spraying out like the one I got with it , when I went in the house after running it it was like I had been standing behind a bike going through mud and water but now it’s not like that , and I don’t have a clue what oil it is that came with it . Just going to keep my eyes on it this next week and see how it goes

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

It’s a matter of compatibility between the oils recommended and the alloys of metals used Alecs. Without question the large oil companies test and certainly know what oils should or shouldn’t be used with the manufacturers choices of bearing or bushing materials. While there just might not be any compatibility issues used in Nev’s lathe, there’s no way to be 100% confident there won’t.

[Pete]

On Pete Said:

It’s a matter of compatibility between the oils recommended and the alloys of metals used Alecs. Without question the large oil companies test and certainly know what oils should or shouldn’t be used with the manufacturers choices of bearing or bushing materials. While there just might not be any compatibility issues used in Nev’s lathe, there’s no way to be 100% confident there won’t.

Can you name one ordinary motor oil that the manufacturer labels as not compatible with yellow metals?

 

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

I’m not here to argue, maybe just Google it.

[Pete]

On Pete Said:

I’m not here to argue, maybe just Google it.

I Googled it. There is not one reference to any motor oil being unsuitable for yellow metals. Gear oils, yes. Motor oils, no.

I’m afraid you’ve been misinformed on this one.

[Nev WhitehurstParticipant @nevwhitehurst53938]

I’ve been reading up on klubersynth GH 6-220 and all that I have read is that it is a good choice for the copper bearings and that it gives them a longer life , you all seem to have different opinions on what is good and bad but if you go back in time when there wasn’t much choice on what oils you could get what would you have used on your lathes then ? I’m not sure what is best or what isn’t , I remember when you had motor oil for diesel cars and oil for petrol cars and a few premium oils nowadays you have oils for anything going so which one do you go for if you’re not a specialist in oils

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

The vast range of modern motor oils and in particular specfic manufaturer / standards organisation approvals for oils of the same basic type and viscosicity. Anyone who has done any research into the development of these will find that many have minor “adjustments” to solve specific issues found in in testing or service. On the other side of the coin the manufacturers my try to use the same oil for as many different models in their current range as possible to reduce logistics issues.

Even the EP gear oils don’t say “don’t use with yellow metals” on the user instructions. You are supposed to use the correct specification without needing to know the details. e.g. https://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-and-fluids/gearbox-oil/comma-gear-oil-ep80%2F90-gl4-1l-124341.html

The more advanced / expensive oils are not automatically “better”. Many years ago I had a older performance car that was one of the first to use a turbocharger. It needed some work that needed a lift so I got the local main dealer to do the work and a service. All seemed OK on driving off untill the turbo got hot and I was leaving a huge smoke screen every time I moved off from beeing stopped at lights etc. They had serviced the cat with the “latest and greatest” zero weight oil used on the current models. This was far too thin for the turbocharger design. When sat at idle the oil pooledd in the turbine ready to lay that smoke screen. After a bit of explanation (from me) they changed it to the correct specification oil.

Robert.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

That “kluber ISO 220 stuff” may well have been used for lubricating the bed and any other sliding parts, not the ball, roller, etc rotating bearings?  Just a thought as the thread title was a rather general one.

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