Rust in CI Cylinders

[Dennis RaynerParticipant @dennisrayner52782]

After 17 years I have just finished my 7¼" gauge Hunslet. When I came to phototograph it I found it would not move! I last steamed it very successfully 11 months ago and since then have been making all the platework and other bits and pieces. I have taken off the cylinder covers to see an appalling amount of rust in the bottom of CI cylinders. At the very least I am going to have to re-hone the bores but what did I do wrong?

The model lives in my garage which is unheated but has cavity walls and a bedroom above. The loco is not superheated and has hydrostatic lubrication which is clearly working as observed by the sight feed and the oil used. At the end of the last steamiing, I left the lubrication on for a few minutes hopefully flooding the cylinders with oil. Clearly that was not enough.

What is the best procedure to stop this happening again?

Desperate Dennis!

[Dennis RaynerParticipant @dennisrayner52782]

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

hi dennis,

what a beautiful loco!

until cast iron has developed that hard glass like wearing surface it is prone to rust. one of my locos has cast iron cylinders and in any event i always add shell ensis oil via dope fillers on the steam chest after a steam up after getting rid of any condensate. this was recommended by the late Bill Carter whose 5"g GNR Atlantic won all the top awards in 1967/68.

i hope this is of help.

cheers,

julian

Edited By julian atkins on 16/02/2013 22:54:32

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

Hi Dennis ,

Last thing before finishing a steaming session blow down the cylinders and valve chests with steam vented out of drain cocks . On most models there aren't enough drain cocks – you need them at all the lowest points including on valve chests .

After that treat cylinders with a water miscible oit like Ensis mentioned above . To do this properly you need doping plugs on the cylinders and to move engine around a bit to spread oil .

Note that after shut down a hydrostatic lubrication system can do odd things like have all the sludge in the tank sucked back into the engine works by cooling induced vacuum in cylinders . Best to shut system off before end of steaming .

Best to leave drain cocks open during storage in any case ..

The nature of the rust can tell you sometimes what caused the problem – flake rust , powder rust , corrosion pitting or just rust staining ?? Also just rust on bottoms of cylinder bores and valve chests or everywhere ??

Sometimes rust in CI cylinders is much less severe than it first looks – if you are lucky a clean up and a run might just clear it away .

Regards ,

Michael Williams .

PS: For next engine – after final assembly and painting flood all cylinder parts with oil for a week before first steaming .

[richard folwellParticipant @richardfolwell36886]

Hello Dennis,

My remedy for cast iron cylinder rusting is very simple. On returning home after a running session I simply trickle some light steam oil down the blast pipe whilst gently moving the loco back and forth until it appears from the open cylinder drains. When it has dripped from all drain cocks job done. Close cocks until next time. My loco has piston valves incidentally and often lays idle for quite some considerable time, but never siezes. Of course always remember to open them again before moving the loco.

Richard

[John BillardParticipant @johnbillard11913]

Dear Dennis

I do the same as Richard; except that I use cutting oil poured down the blast pipe using a specially made little funnel that fits in the top of thechimney. Put her in back gear and push the engine forward, into forward ger and back etc till oil emits from the drain taps. Th engine is a 5" Manor recently acquired from my frend Ken Morris. He built the engine very nicely and used this system for at least 15 seasons without trouble.

Best wishes

John

[Dennis RaynerParticipant @dennisrayner52782]

Gentlemen,
Thank you for your various helpful replies and Julian for your kind comment on the loco. I have to tell you it is a VERY flattering photograph. I am very much an LBSC builder – NOT Duke of Edinburgh award!

I have today successfully released the piston that was seized – it was one side of the loco only and the bottom of the cylinder bore was rusted to about a 1" width showing where condensed water had laid. I am now reassembling.

As far as future lubrication on disposal is concerned I can access the steam chests via the blast pipe and each end of the cylinders via the cylinders. The question is which lubricant to use? I have searched the internet and found the minimum quantity of Shell Ensis is over £700! Do you know where I can buy a small quantity? As far as steam oil is concerned Richard, do you have an SAE for that which you use? Most of what I have seen is very viscous. John – when you say cutting oil, do you mean soluble oil or "suds"?

Sorry to have so many additional questions but I don't want a seizeup again and I'm looking for the best solution for my situation.

Regards Dennis.

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

hi dennis,

my brother is an engineer on the oil rigs… i will ask him to see if he can get you a can for LADY JOE. shell ensis oil is used quite a bit on the rigs.

you could easily make up some Hunslet type oilers to add to the steamchests and cylinders. the bigger quarry and port locos and LINDA BLANCHE and CHARLES certainly had them fitted. something else to polish too!

cheers,

julian

[John BillardParticipant @johnbillard11913]

Dear Dennis

Yes, I refer to soluble oil. This has the advantage of mixing with the condensate rather than the opposite that might not do so much good. Easily obtainable too.

Best wishes

John

[Jens Eirik Skogstad 1Participant @jenseirikskogstad1]

Boat shop is selling the preservative oil for boat engine against rust when the boat is stored away in winter period.

I has Stuart steam engine. After use, i am using pressure air to drive out water via drain cocks and adding the preservative oil inside via steam pipe to steam engine and spread preservative oil around inside steam engine while the steam engine is handcranked. Let the drain cocks be open to ventilate the cylinders/steam chest.

[Dennis RaynerParticipant @dennisrayner52782]

Thanks very much for that. I live on the south coast with lots of Chandlers around so I will look into it as well as the other suggestions.

Dennis

[Dennis RaynerParticipant @dennisrayner52782]

This is a note for Julian – I replied to a PM from you to me on this subject a week ago but it is still showing unread – I wondered if there was a system problem?

Regards
Dennis

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