new to model engineering

[lady of lincolnParticipant @lady-of-lincoln]

Hello

My name is james and I have just inherited a 3.5″ gauge loco that my great uncle bulit in the 60’s it has not run for at least 40 years and I have no paperwork.

I have managed to pump it up to 50psi with a water pump which has shown a few leaks. Been to a couple of engineering societys at Lincoln and nottingham both saying I will need to expose the boiler to get it checked properly.

I am struggling to identify what it is bassed on does anyone here recognise it?

[WearyParticipant @weary]

‘Pamela‘: ‘LBSC’ designed loco???

Albeit both loco and tender platework modified to give a more ‘BR standard’ outline.

Has it been constructed as a  three cylinder loco?   Loco chassis looks very ‘Hielen Lassie‘ influenced.

Hielen Lassie also designed by LBSC for 3 1/2″ gauge.

Regards,

Phil

 

[lady of lincolnParticipant @lady-of-lincoln]

Hi Phil

I have been told by someone it looks like hielen lassie but the boiler inspector I saw today at nottingham said no but did mention LBSC looks like it is going to need a new boiler

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Britannia ? but does not have the smoke box regulator. Gresley A3 . The front end is all wrong for a heilan lassie. Noel.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I would advise a proper, thorough inspection with the cladding removed. (Repairs would likely need the boiler removing from the frames, but the inspection should not).

By “proper” I mean carefully and to the standard scheme – but not to some nervous inspector’s own “gold-plated” version of it!

 

You say a couple of leaks; but from what? Shell joints, tube joints or around a couple of rod stays? Or just around fittings?

 

It would need a new boiler only if inspection reveals irrepairable faults.

 

The lack of test-certificate paperwork is not a problem but having the drawings available would help the inspector. A test-certificate can be organised for it by treating it as a “new” boiler – but that will mean an initial, once-only “shell test” to twice working-pressure. As would major repairs.

Obviously if it fails the shell-test, that’s it for that boiler.

The test scheme we use says boilers “… have in fact to be safe” (I quoted that not from the MELG book but from the original PER law – about the only use of the word in pages of ISO-EU-legal waffle!) but not how they are designed and built.

Otherwise there would be a lot of older model locomotives no longer able to run; although standards have improved and we no longer do things like screwing studs or fittings directly into the copper shell.

 

There is an important caveat.

You imply not being a member of a model-engineering society; but the scheme we use does depend on the engine-owner being a fully paid-up member of a club affiliated via an appropriate federation to the MELG (Model Engineering Liaison Group) scheme.

Your evident Midlands location suggests a club in the Northern Association of Model engineers but we do have a curious situation in which there are geographically Northern societies in the Southern federation and vice-versa! No matter: the two groups do co-operate and use the same scheme.

If that sounds bureaucratic, it isn’t really – and your subscription includes boiler-testing. Societies are not allowed to charge extra for that; nor to certify boilers belonging to people not in an affiliated society.

It is NOT a matter of cliqueiness, but at insurers’ and HSE insistence.

If you have it tested commercially you’d pay a lot of money even if you found anyone to do it.

Otherwise you could run the locomotive only in the privacy of your own back-garden railway.

[lady of lincolnParticipant @lady-of-lincoln]

<p style=”text-align: left;”>Hello Nigel I have made attempts to join both Nottingham and lincoln societies both in administration process I am completely new to this but I have been lucky to have been introduced to someone who has made his own 7 1/4 locos.</p>
The leaks I mentioned are from gaskets and what looks to be stays in the cab. there is also evidence of soft solder.

Thanks for your advice.

James

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Leaks from gaskets are easily put right: new gaskets!

Soft solder alone is not a problem. Miniature boilers years ago were commonly rivetted and caulked with soft solder, though it should be a solder with a high melting-point, not the low m-p alloys for assembling electronics. Most such boilers probably have plumbing solder in them.

Small leaks around stays are not too serious but a leak on a major structural joint is far harder to deal with. If silver-brazed, it might be repairable with a low melting-point silver solder, but silver-solder cannot be used on joints already holding soft-solder.

The nature and location of the leak, and of the existing fabrication around it, needs assessing very carefully. If the soft-solder appears to be caulking a leak on a silver-soldered joint, it can only be sealed with soft-solder.

Such a leak may be due to a spot of contaminent or oxide on the original surface; and these might be “sealed” with flux for a long time but eventually that disappears to create a leak path.

 

[lady of lincolnParticipant @lady-of-lincoln]

Thank you  Nigel for your replys I know now I need to strip down to expose the boiler clean it up and move forward from there.

Hopefully enrolling in two engineering societys should help me to progress.

Thanks

James

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Rather belatedly after we all jumped straight into the matter of your locomotive… Welcome to the Forum!

Umm, any particular reason for joining two societies not very far apart?

[lady of lincolnParticipant @lady-of-lincoln]

I will be joining Lincoln as it is close to me but doesn’t have a 3.5 track Nottingham does and you get the use of there workshop but it is up to an hour away

[Dave WoottonParticipant @davewootton]

Welcome to the forum

Your loco does have the look of LBSC’s Britannia about it, the shape of the frames seems about right and the general proportions. But I see it is fitted with Baker valve gear, this was one of LBSC’s pet valve gears which he featured in some of his designs, P.V Baker and Fayette spring to mind. He may have included it in one of his articles as a modification, there are articles on Baker gear in the Live Steam book and I believe there was a Baker gear option for Titch. Looks a nice engine , worth getting steaming again

Worth having a look at John Baguleys website, he is a dab hand at sympathetic restoration of older locomotives, I’ve found answers to many problems there.

Dave

 

[lady of lincolnParticipant @lady-of-lincoln]

Thank you for your input will take a look at the website you mention it is indeed a nice engine and I hope it does indeed steam again

[lady of lincolnParticipant @lady-of-lincoln]

Hello all

Not sure where to post this so thought I would tag it on to this thread.

I decided to get a new boiler made as I had no history or paperwork to go with it. The boiler is in the process of being made while I was able to strip the engine down to remove the boiler I am not sure my skills are sufficient to rebuild can anyone point me in the right direction to any company / person who could complete the restoration for me?

Thanks

James

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