New Member Intro – Turriff, Aberdeenshire, UK

[neiljhardieParticipant @neiljhardie]

Hello – very, very new to the world of model engineering etc. having just bought my first small lathe and some other tools for my fledgling workshop!

My ambition is to be able to modify or make small parts to replace, repair or upgrade old audio equipment – microphones mainly.  Tired of searching on-line selling sites waiting for unobtainable parts to come up for sale!

Looking forward to getting started – but a huge amount to learn!

Thanks in advance … Neil

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

Hi Welcome to the forum. There are always someone on here who has information in electronics etc and sound systems so ask away. I have in the past made special parts like adaptors with different threads and screw cutting bushes to hold parts etc.

David

[neiljhardieParticipant @neiljhardie]

Thanks David – that’s exactly the kind of thing I had in mind.  I will be sure to tap into that knowledge!

Best wishes,

Neil

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Welcome Neil, screw cutting is one thing that you will soon need to get the hang of. You do not say what sort of lathe you have ? A small book you will find very useful is the Workshop practice Series, No 3, screw cutting in the lathe. If you have a question there will be someone here who will be able to help. Good Luck.   Noel

[noel shelley]

On noel shelley Said:

Welcome Neil, screw cutting is one thing that you will soon need to get the hang of. You do not say what sort of lathe you have ? A small book you will find very useful is the Workshop practice Series, No 3, screw cutting in the lathe. If you have a question there will be someone here who will be able to help. Good Luck.   Noel

Thanks Noel – that does sound like a good place to start.  Sorry, I should have added I have a little Unimat 3 lathe with the milling attachment too.  Any other pointers for suggested reading very welcome!

Thanks again,

Neil

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

The WPS No 34 Lathework a complete course, may also be of interest. For the money any of these books are good value. Noel.

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Hi Neil, Turriff.  Brings back memories of long ago when Caribonum and later Pelican had their manufacturing plant there making typewriter ribbons, carbon paper and later toner.  We used to fly up from Peterborough, stay for a couple of days to sort out IT problems and return to the warmer climes!

Bob

[renardiere7Participant @renardiere7]

Good grief!  Memories here for me too although I do hail from that part of the world originally. One of my brothers was a design engineer at Caribonum at Turriff. They had a fabulous development workshop with a large Schaublin lathe and a lovely Swiss machinist called Willie Eicher who had a BMW motorad that I was envious of. I think I’d rather have the Schaublin these days!

My youngest brother, I’m pretty sure, did a spell at Turriff water treatment works as a young chemistry student.

Nice to have a Turra loon on board Neil, I’m sure you will enjoy this forum as much as I do.

[neiljhardieParticipant @neiljhardie]

Thanks all for the warm welcome … certainly not warm in Turra today with about a foot of snow on the ground!  I’m not a native of the town (I hail originally from even colder climes north of Inverness), but it’s a fine spot and I’ve been here for about 20 years.  There is still a presence at the Caribonum/Pelikan site – now in the hands of a Chinese company called Zhourim, although maybe not quite the size of employer it once was.

Looking forward to getting into some work with my lathe and leaning heavily on the experience in the group!

All the best,

Neil

 

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Welcome to the hobby.

LOTS of knowledge and experience on here.

You might find Stan Bray’s “Basic lathework”, (45 in the Workshop practice series) a useful book.

No matter what the lathe, they all work on the same basic principle.

The technique is to become familiar with your particular machine,, to get the best from it.

So be prepared to “waste” some metal by just turning it down, facing, drilling, and boring etc.

Make your basic mistakes on stuff that doesn’t matter, then start learning the black arts of setting up changewheels for thread cutting. (For smaller sizes, you may be able to survive by using Taps and Dies. – You can gain useful experience by making sliding holders for such things, and have useful tools, as well as experience, afterwards.)

But for some threads you will need to work out the ratio between chuck and leadscrew.

You may find Martin Cleeve’s “Screwcutting in the Lathe” No 3 in the Workshop Practice Series helpful.

A more expensive book, which might help is Brian Wood’s “Gearing of Lathes for Screwcutting”.

You might well find yourself making adaptors with one thread on one end, and another of different size, pitch or form, on the other.

(In the past I have made such things as an adaptor with a 12 x 1 Metric thread on one end and a 1/4 BSP thread on the other).

With a lathe all sorts of combination are possible.

But learn the basics first, especially how to set a tool on centre height, consistently.

Howard

[vintagengineerParticipant @vintagengineer]

Hi Neil

if you need any local help, I’m in Pitlochry.

Cheers

Paul

[neiljhardieParticipant @neiljhardie]

Hi Howard and Paul – thanks for the guidance and the kind offer of local help.  I might take you up on that.  Much appreciated!

All the best,

Neil

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Further to Howard’s advice, the simple tasks done to “learn the ropes” varies.   Can be done by turning to size, facing, boring, drilling, tapering, threading, knurling etc as series of artificial exercises applied to random lumps of metal. perhaps following a textbook.   More satisfying to make something mildly useful such as simple tools.   I found that pretty dull too!

Though my interest is experimental engineering, not model making, I found building a few model stationary steam engines to be highly instructive and rewarding.   There’s a real-buzz when an engine you made yourself bursts into life!

Practical advantages of learning by building an simple engine include:

• The characteristics of different materials, especially mild-steel, aluminium and brass.  Possibly also plastics, cast-iron, copper and paint.
• How to read a plan, including spotting errors.
• An engine requires many parts of different shapes and sizes.  These teach how to hold parts whilst cutting them to shape, and deciding the best order in which to apply the cuts.  In particular, don’t rush to remove metal than might be needed later to hold the part in a vice!    Also, teaches different cutters and techniques.
• Fitting and measurement.   Though tempting to make parts to within a tenth (0.003mm) so that everything bolts together straight off the bench,  this is rarely necessary.   I typically work to no better than ±0.02mm (about a thou), and fit parts together by matching them together as templates.   Fitting is an old-fashioned technique made obsolete in industry by the American System of Manufacture, but it works extremely well for prototyping and whenever parts do not have to be exchangeable.   Building a model engine you can try both to see which suits you best.
• Actually making things highlights knowledge and tooling gaps like nothing else.  Building an model engine taught me I really needed a milling machine as well.  With a rotary table and more…

I made 3 different engines, all from stock – no castings.   The most valuable learning was provided by Stewart Hart’s Pottymill engine. This was challenging enough to push me forward without being too difficult for a rank beginner.   Second most valuable was Jan Ridder’s CoffeeCup Stirling, and the third required Brazing.   In combination they provided all the basic practical skills I needed to make parts in support of my experimental interests.   The same basic skills are applied to model making, loco-building, repair work, clocks, tool-making, and other specialisms.

Though making the engines did not require CAD or 3D-Printing, they did suggest those would also be useful to me.  I looked hard at each engine’s design – asking why, not just following the plan.  Experimental work requires design, not working from existing plans or relying on previous experience.  Neils’s audio requirements might well take him into that territory.   Most microphones are a mix of plastic and metal parts, and designing a good one from scratch would be a major challenge.

Another advantage of building a few model engines is Public Relations:  they are the only things my family understand.  Everything else I make leaves them baffled!  Also reduces the chance that neighbours will jump to the conclusion I’m a mad-scientist cooking up weapons of mass destruction.  A surprising number of ignorant folk start by assuming others have evil motives.  Helps to show them something they can comprehend…

Dave

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The Unimat3 was not a screw cutting lathe and on the very rare chance you have their attachment for screwcutting most of the published books on screwcutting won’t be a lot of use as it is a completely different system. You are likely to be limited to what is available as taps & dies.

There were a couple of Unimat specific books which would be more relevant than the typical Myford type lathe a lot of the other old books were based on.

Unimat Lathe Projects by Gerald Wingrove, The Book Of The Unimat by Laidlaw-Dickson and possibly Unimat 3 lathe accessories by Bob Loader but depends if you want to make tools are the actual audio items you bought the lathe for

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

How about fitting an els system?

There’s a Unimat forum on groups.io

[John Haine]

On John Haine Said:

How about fitting an els system?

 

It would save having to keep cranking that permanently engaged 1mm pitch lead screw! But would need to be easily disconnected so you could put on a small cut when facing.

 

As for ctr height the U3’s toolpost is the exact height to be able to put a 6×6 shank insert tool in without having to faff with shims etc and it will be dead on ctr heigh. So not even an excuse to make a tool height gauge. 😂

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Welcome Neil, from another Metal basher !

There may be better places to start, but I just can,t think of any right now.

Ask away whatever you want to know, someone here has the answer and will be only too willing to help [ask me how I know ]

If you have the right setup, threadcutting is a pleasure in itself.  Dont know that lathe myself but there many of them around, so someone will be able to set you right.

Have fun !

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I’m not sure thread cutting on a Unimat was ever a pleasure as it’s a completely different set up, more like a copy lathe so forget change wheels, setting over the topslide, thread indicators and a lot more in the old books.

As I said the U3 threading attachment is rare and I could not find a decent online image so you will have to make do with the one for the older SL which is the same principle.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

What a bodge!  Definitely needs an ELS.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

The essential thing is to get a grasp of the basics. Having merely mangled some metal, you will have learned something, even if only not to make the same error again. (I learned pretty quickly that whatever cut was put on, reduced the diameter by twice as much!)

By just reducing the diameter of a bit of mild steel, you will learn the effects of speeds, feeds and depths of cut.  In that way, you begin to distinguish between taking a roughing cut and taking a finishing cut.

If you learn by making simple tools, they may not be things of beauty, but will have taught you something and are available for use in the future.

Better to make an error on a bit of ordinary mild steel than an expensive casting from a kit.

You find out how to drill and Tap a hole, so that you then have a tool to make tapping a hole simpler, in the future.

“C’est brusque; mais ca march” as a I think, Peugot said about the simple gearbox.

We all learn something, every day.

Howard

[renardiere7Participant @renardiere7]

Interesting. Wasn’t aware that Unimat used this form of thread chasing. It used to be quite a well established method of cutting threads, particularly fine threads.  I have a Mikron optical bench lathe specifically for cutting  fine optical threads on tubes for microscopes/telescopes. It can be a surprisingly fast way of forming an accurate thread.

[Alistair Robertson 1Participant @alistairrobertson1]

Hi, Neil.

I live in Maud and I know Turriff well. My sister stays in “Turra” and I have many good friends who live locally. I have slightly bigger bits of kit than yourself i.e. Harrison lathe, Bridgeport mill, Denford Mill and Lathe both CNC and heaps of other kit.   Not very active now as my health is a bit ropey but I can still spik a good job as they say in this area.

Alistair.

[Author]

Posts