Machinist level

[ianjParticipant @ians]

Steve.

If you search for Starrett levels I'm sure you will find a suitable replacement, I did. It was not stocked in the UK but my local Starrett agent (Lawton Eng. supplies ) ordered me one from the US. I think starrett have a minimum order of £50 so Lawton's waited until they were placing an order of other parts. If I remember correctly it was around the £14 mark, took about four weeks to arrive..

Ian

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Posted by JasonB on 17/03/2022 07:01:55:

Steve, this restore mentions a 15 x 96 vial, link is dead but its the top of this list, similar price to Zoro assuming vat included

Jason , that's the one.

Steve.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Posted by ian j on 17/03/2022 17:23:17:

Steve.

If you search for Starrett levels I'm sure you will find a suitable replacement, I did. It was not stocked in the UK but my local Starrett agent (Lawton Eng. supplies ) ordered me one from the US. I think starrett have a minimum order of £50 so Lawton's waited until they were placing an order of other parts. If I remember correctly it was around the £14 mark, took about four weeks to arrive..

Ian

Will have a look as the one i have seen is over £40 .

Steve.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

I have replaced a vial in a M&W engineers level and have used it a few times in anger, not the easiest thing to use I have to admit.

Then one day I had the proverbial light bulb moment. A few years ago, I was given an artillery clinometer as a birthday present, members of my family know that I value such offbeat things! This one was a MkV from 1943 , complete with leather case. Like Clive,I realised that this could be used as a level. I find it easier to use and just as accurate as my M&W level,

Andrew.

P.S. Similar artillery clinometers don't seem to be very expensive.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Well the cheapest so far is the Starrett one from the USA. Works out at £21.95 inc del. Possible import duty , from Amazon. Waiting for other half to get home as she has Amazon prime. Might seem tight but it came from a friends estate with so much more gear. I just thought i would renovate it. Cannot ever see me using it either. It's a lovely thing , but i have nothing that requires such accuracy.

Steve.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Years ago, before the business changed hands, College Engineering Supplies used to offer vials in three different sensitivities, for their Engineer#s level kit..

Don't know if they still do.

Might be worth exploring?

Howard

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Just looked at College eng sup. They don't list anything. It's now in a bag in a dark corner for now.

I will keep looking. But everything I have found so far is north of £40. For something i may never use.

Steve.

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Steve, see issue 33 of MEW, P27 et seq. "Playing With Spirits", where Bill Morris describes making your own vials.

I'll not reproduce it here for the obvious copyright reasons.

Bill

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

I would have thought this one from Level Developments would be more than accurate enough, and only half the price you quoted.

Rob

Links to https://www.leveldevelopments.com/products/vials/ground-vials/5725-101-ground-vial-15x96mm-sensitivity-0-05mm-m/

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Posted by Grindstone Cowboy on 20/03/2022 00:18:51:

I would have thought this one from Level Developments would be more than accurate enough, and only half the price you quoted.

Rob

Links to https://www.leveldevelopments.com/products/vials/ground-vials/5725-101-ground-vial-15x96mm-sensitivity-0-05mm-m/

Well i bit the bullet & have just ordered it from them. What they do not put is the VAT when showing a total. So the vial was £20. The postage was £8.50 (the cheapest they do.) Then VAT at £5.80. Total £34.82.

Oh well at least it will make a video for youtube . If i don't mess it up. Of course i will have a 18" Rabone machinists level for £34.82. So maybe a win. Thanks for the kick up the butt. I had put it to the back of my mind. Thanks.

Steve.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Steviegtr on 20/03/2022 01:00:32:

Posted by Grindstone Cowboy on 20/03/2022 00:18:51:

I would have thought this one from Level Developments would be more than accurate enough, and only half the price you quoted.

Rob

Links to https://www.leveldevelopments.com/products/vials/ground-vials/5725-101-ground-vial-15x96mm-sensitivity-0-05mm-m/

Well i bit the bullet & have just ordered it …

Oh well at least it will make a video for youtube …

Steve.

Dare I suggest a quick post on the forum before making a video?

Not against videoing the attempted repair, but with some help from the forum it's an opportunity to show:

• How helpful, or not, it is to find the horizontal line as an aid to re-assembly
• the advantages and disadvantages of a high-sensitivity bubble in action
• how a machinist's level is used to get a lathe to cut parallel
• Other members might suggest more

So far as aligning lathes goes, I have an idea a 0.05mm vial might be just right for the job. I feel my 0.02mm Engineer's Level is inconveniently sensitive, and believe about half that would be more suitable. But I can't test the hypothesis without buying another Machinist's Level, and owning one is more than enough! You could report how yours performs.

Dave

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

SOD. Dave I can do that but not sure how much i know about levels. I have used them all my working life , but nothing as a accurate machinist type.

I need to get some plaster of Paris now.

I will report back.

Steve.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Possibly, having installed the vial, while the plaster of paris is still moist, to rotate the vial until the bubble moves as close as possible to the centre (highest position. )

Once the plaster has set, the end to end location can be adjusted by rotating the level by 180 degrees and adjusting until it gives the same reading which ever direction it is facing.

As long as it shows the same "out of level" in both directions, it will not matter too much if the "datum" surface is not absolutely level.

Howard

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

I am suspicious as to why the vials break so easy. Is it bad storage. Is it because it's glass . Is it because it's glass & pressing against a steel body apart from the back of it.

If the latter. Then would the whole vial benefit from being wrapped all the way round & then trimmed carefully where the opening is. The hole in the steel /Brass tube is a little over 16mm. The Vial is 15mm. So 1/2mm wiggle room all round.

Just had a mail from UPS. It will be delivered tomorrow. But still need to get some Plaster of Paris.

Steve.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I can’t recall the recipe at the moment, but I’m sure something is mixed with the Plaster of Paris to make it a little more resilient.

MichaelG

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Almost sure that 50:50 Plaster and White Flour is recommended

MichaelG.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Well guys. I have managed to repair the Level. I will attach pictures below. As SOD or someone said, not everyone wants to watch Youtube video's. So the photo's will at least show the thing being repaired. But honestly. We say a picture paints a 1000 words. But how many words does a video paint. Just saying.. I recorded over 6 hours of footage. Spent much of today editing down to 25 mins. Regards all. Yes they are very difficult to set up. I ended up on the mill bed. I have no Granite block or anything like that. The rotating & adjusting took around 1 1/2 hrs. Will put a link to the video, once it is up & running.

Steve.

Edited By Steviegtr on 15/04/2022 17:48:30

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

The video is here.

Steve.

[ryan.carter848Participant @ryan-carter848]

Trying to avoid starting a new thread – does anybody know if a level vial usually has the graduations ground onto the glass, which is then filled with some sort of colour, or if the markings are ‘printed’ onto the vial and once they’re worn off, they’re worn off?

I have a Starrett 199 and am interested in another that is in need of some repair to the markings, but honestly by feel I can’t tell if the ticks are ground in or not!

Cheers

[ryan.carter848Participant @ryan-carter848]

I just purchased it on ebay so can be less ambiguous 😀

£30 quid for an 18 inch straight edge, and a 199 in the worst condition I’ve ever seen. Worth a punt I thought anyway.

Worst comes to worst, I’ll get a level developments vial and treat the Starrett as a casting.

 

 

[ryan.carter848Participant @ryan-carter848]

This was the thread I was thinking about, restoring the PG dividing head. Etched scales was the word I was missing not ground, but it looks like the OP didn’t get that far in documenting his resto 🙁 https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/topic/pg-optical-dividing-head/page/2/

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

My post seems to have vanished. I purchased a vial from Level Developments some 7 or 8 years ago. It wasn’t cheap, but it got me going. I was restoring another engineers level some 2 years ago. I tried Level Developments again and found them totally unhelpful. “We might have something suitable in our developments dept”. Chased them for a month and finally gave up. They simply didn’t want to know.

Zoro sounds a much better bet or even some of the Chinese market places. Don’t bother with Level Developments.

Andrew.

[ryan.carter848Participant @ryan-carter848]

Cheers Andrew, on their website I can see them on a web store at least, so maybe if I go that route it could be an option.

Another thing I notice about Level Developments is how closely they resemble levels made by E.D.A in France.

I actually own a Level Developments 10 sec level (off eBay) and everything is identical to the E.D.A ones down to the box, allen key in the box and even a sticker on the bottom saying that it’s hardened… in French!

Goes against the LD claim of being made in England, but perhaps the bases are shared amongst various companies and they only make the vial… who knows.

I’ve tried googling / asking the robots but nothing I can find shows any affiliation between the two.

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