Is there a special tool for this?

[gerry maddenParticipant @gerrymadden53711]

I'm just trying to dismantle and clean up a 25 year old Panasonic vacuum cleaner and find that the main casings are held together with anti-tamper screws. I managed to get the only exposed one out with some pliers but the remaining three are down some long holes so I'll need a tool to get them out.

They look like male versions of a multi-spline (actually 6 splines) socket headed screw.

I've never seen anything like this before, or a driver for them so I'm just wondering if anyone is familiar with what they might be officially called, what's needed, or where I might look for a tool ? Any help would be appreciated.

[gerry maddenParticipant @gerrymadden53711]

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Looks like ‘System Zero’

**LINK**

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/security-screws/3007616

MichaelG.

[OldironParticipant @oldiron]

Not seen those type before. Depending on how deep the remaining screws are it might be worth having a go at them with a left handed drill bit. Thats how I got the screws out of an old Sharp boom box.

regards

edit. Looks like MG hit it on the head once again with the type.  The  removal tool is about  £20.00

Edited By Oldiron on 01/07/2022 21:01:33

[gerry maddenParticipant @gerrymadden53711]

Michael, fantastic, hit the nail on the head !….again…..

Gerry

[peak4Participant @peak4]

This tool would appear to be a bit cheaper; I suspect drilling out will be tricky as they are hardened, but having already extracted one, and being hardened, it might work as a form tool to make a suitable depression in the end of a metal bar.
Last time I had one to remove, I made a slotted spade bit out of an old screwdriver, but fortunately the screw wasn't too tight; obviously there was only two points of contact, rather than six.
https://www.millsltd.com/default/mills-system-zero-tamperproof-screwdriver.html

Bill

[AJAXParticipant @ajax]

Funnily enough I had to tighten one of those screws in a power supply today. I made it slightly less loose using a pair of pliers. If I had more time (and this may be your best / cheapest solution) I would have taken a straight bladed screwdriver and ground a vee in the blade. I think it should should work well enough for a one-off.

Alternatively, is this the same screw type found on Gameboys, etc.? If so, the correct tool can be purchased cheaply.

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

I have slotted a screwdriver in the past, it works well enough.

Martin C

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Martin Connelly on 02/07/2022 08:06:41:

I have slotted a screwdriver in the past, it works well enough.

.

Which makes ‘System Zero’ pretty shabby as a tamper-proof screw, doesn’t it ?

MichaelG.

[Anthony KendallParticipant @anthonykendall53479]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 02/07/2022 08:34:27:

Posted by Martin Connelly on 02/07/2022 08:06:41:

I have slotted a screwdriver in the past, it works well enough.

Which makes ‘System Zero’ pretty shabby as a tamper-proof screw, doesn’t it ? MichaelG.

Which makes me wonder why it would need to be tamper-proof anyway?

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

I would junk them anyway and put regular cross head self taps back in their place. As MichaelG observed, why bother.

Brian

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

At cheap stores I have come across a plastic block with 24 different tamperproof bits on 1/4" hex drive.for about £5. The only problem is the bit holder is often too wide for the deep holes they put the fixings in. There are 2 types of sets, ordinary, is red, tamperproof is blue. at that price if one works and gets you out of a muddle it's worth it. Then there's 5 point torx tamper proof as used by JCB ! Noel.

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Posted by Anthony Kendall on 02/07/2022 10:15:52:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 02/07/2022 08:34:27:

Posted by Martin Connelly on 02/07/2022 08:06:41:

I have slotted a screwdriver in the past, it works well enough.

Which makes ‘System Zero’ pretty shabby as a tamper-proof screw, doesn’t it ? MichaelG.

Which makes me wonder why it would need to be tamper-proof anyway?

Most probably some countries requirement to stop consumers tampering, obviously doesn’t work🤣

Tony

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

So you can't fix it yourself and have to take it to the Panasonic dealer for repair. Remember those days when appliance stores repaired things?

[Dennis DParticipant @dennisd]

I think what you need is an E5 security bit if you Google it you should get some hits. Tried to paste the link but for some reason it didn't work, could be the change over or the fact I'm using a android tablet

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

+1 for slotting a screwdriver. You have an extracted one as a pattern which makes it easier.

Single blade will be ample on self tappers in plastic but its a bit of a technique to keep the blade central and driving properly in a deep hole. I found going sideways was easier than going straight down.

Clve

[gerry maddenParticipant @gerrymadden53711]

Since many of you took the time to send your thoughts and suggestions I just want to let you know how the story ended. Since it was a Saturday and I wanted to get the job wrapped up, I made a quick check of the local stores online to see if anyone had a 'system zero' screw driver in stock. They didn't, so set about profiling an old flat-bladed screwdriver as several of you suggested. This went well and was able to reinstall and the remove the previously extracted screw with reasonable success. It seemed then that it was all downhill from there, but when I attacked the remaining security screws I just couldn't make my new tool engage at all. Clearly something wasnt right.

I did mention previously that these 'screws' were located at the bottom of deep narrow holes. As such they were not at all easy to see. To cut a long story short I began to doubt that they were screws. Infact with more careful inspection, they resembled rough rivet heads. But this just didn't make sense. Why would anyone do such a thing ? I did some googling and found a service and maintenance instructions on the internet for a very similar model. This document basically said "remove the "safety" screw and pull the casings apart" ! So I did, and it worked ! It subsequently turned out that what I though were 'screw heads' were just injection pips!

Dismantling the machine thereafter was a dream. Every component was snapped together and was very easy to separate, wash and re-assemble…. and not a single one of these moulded clips broke in the process! Panasonic clearly put a lot of thought into this design, robust parts and nicely productionised.

….and there wasn't anything wrong with the motor bearings after all. The squeaking was the brushes, and even this has now disappeared after a long run. The "safety" screw by the way has been re-homed in the bin.

Gerry

I

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

I'm wondering if it is not a tamper proof screw head, just another system? Like the torx system being used rather than the allen (hex key) system.

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

Perhaps not strictly anti-tamper – but what does that mean? It doesn't look like it would make assembly easier, so it must be to frustrate owners when the shoddy thing's built-in failure mechanisms take effect and an unnecessary fault occurs. Just do what 'they' want you to do – buy a new one, it's good for business. Increase waste. There is no hope for the world.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by John MC on 06/07/2022 07:13:06:

I'm wondering if it is not a tamper proof screw head …

.

Well it’s certainly described that way, John

Please see the link that I posted earlier, and also this ‘selection guide’

**LINK**

https://docs.rs-online.com/bbbc/0900766b816a3a64.pdf

MichaelG.

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

When there's effectively an arms race ensuring that most 'anti-tamper' fastenings can be undone, the use of such things can only frustrate the technically backward. It's disgustingly arrogant of manufacturers to have such an attitude toward their customers.

[FarmboyParticipant @farmboy]

The majority of contributors here are not a representative sample of the population at large when it comes to technical abilities.

I think there is a good case for preventing the average 'man in the street' from tampering with the insides of electrical equipment. If they can't get past the tamperproof screws they're probably not bright enough to deal with what's inside

[magpieParticipant @magpie]

In my former business making display equipment, i used these screws, which were available as self tapping screws, or metric threads. Two sizes of tool were available for the different sizes of screw and i bought them from RS.

I still have a few of each type of screw and the tools to use them but no longer have any need.

Dek.

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Only true tamperproof fixing I've come across is the C/S woodscrew with back ramped drive faces.

Regards Ian.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Circlip on 06/07/2022 11:52:56:

Only true tamperproof fixing I've come across is the C/S woodscrew with back ramped drive faces.

Regards Ian.

.

Always known at GKN [where my Dad worked in the 60s] as Jail-Door Screws

MichaelG.

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