More mystery tools

More mystery tools

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  • #418567
    Robin Graham
    Participant
      @robingraham42208

      Having a tidy up I came across a mysterious wooden tube containing eight tools:

      img_2059.jpg

      The one at the top appears to be a miniature tapered reamer (which makes me wonder about clock-making), the next six have what look like hand forged square section tangs and the bottom one has a slightly mushroomed head which makes me think it might be a tiny chisel.

      No idea where these came from – anyone recognise them?

      Robin.

       

       

      Edited By Robin Graham on 12/07/2019 22:58:02

      #9749
      Robin Graham
      Participant
        @robingraham42208
        #418571
        Michael Gilligan
        Participant
          @michaelgilligan61133

          Quite probably engraving tools, Robin

          MichaelG.

          .

          http://expositions.bnf.fr/bosse/grand/214.htm

          Image located via Wikipedia

          Edited By Michael Gilligan on 12/07/2019 23:13:30

          #418590
          Plasma
          Participant
            @plasma

            Robin,

            As Michael G says these look very much like gravers, they are missing their mushroom shaped wooden handles.

            Essentially they are a metal cutting chisel but not struck with a mallet they are driven into the metal by hand pressure alone.

            I used to watch a Sheffield hand engraver at work and marvelled at the strength and control he was able to achieve.

            I still have some of his work which I really ought to photograph and post here.

            Best regards Mick

            #418599
            roy entwistle
            Participant
              @royentwistle24699

              I used to watch an engraver engraving shotgun side plates. Used to marvel at the quality of his work, very delicate especially in steel However if you got a receipt from him you couldn't read his handwriting

              Roy

              #418608
              AdrianR
              Participant
                @adrianr18614

                Is there a hole in the end of the case to take the shanks?

                #418618
                Gary Wooding
                Participant
                  @garywooding25363

                  A very good friend of mine was a master engraver who used to decorate the expensive guns of the prestigious gun makers. When he finished a gun, which took several months work, I used to photograph them for him. Here are some examples.

                  dscn0089.jpgdscn0095.jpgdscn0294.jpgdscn0295.jpgdscn0958lh.jpgdscn0959rhs.jpg

                  #418619
                  Alan Jackson
                  Participant
                    @alanjackson47790

                    Wow

                    #418624
                    Grindstone Cowboy
                    Participant
                      @grindstonecowboy

                      Wow + 1

                      I've seen it being done, it is a fascinating process – and knowing that one slip could ruin weeks, if not months, of work must be nerve-wracking.

                      #418625
                      FatWelshBoy
                      Participant
                        @fatwelshboy

                        Some top notch engraving there, shame it seems to be dying out. The only guy that I know of still doing gun work is Don Blocksidge but apparently he's no spring chicken and never took an apprentice on to continue the skill.

                        #418637
                        Gary Wooding
                        Participant
                          @garywooding25363

                          My friend's name was John Salt – if you look closely you can see his name in the bottom 2 photos. He died a couple of years ago.

                          He taught me the rudiments of engraving some years ago, but I'm still very much a novice.

                          #418648
                          Michael Gilligan
                          Participant
                            @michaelgilligan61133

                            Beatiful work by Mr Salt, Gary … and your photos are a fitting tribute.

                            Thanks for sharing them.

                            MichaelG.

                            #418659
                            Neil Wyatt
                            Moderator
                              @neilwyatt

                              Remarkable craftsmanship.

                              Neil

                              #418665
                              Rik Shaw
                              Participant
                                @rikshaw

                                Real works of art, a pleasure to view. Interesting that the engraver has been thoughtful enough to depict your target just in case all that crusted port and vintage cognac has clouded your memory.

                                Rik

                                #418671
                                Brian Oldford
                                Participant
                                  @brianoldford70365

                                  Factorial Wow!

                                  #418676
                                  Howard Lewis
                                  Participant
                                    @howardlewis46836

                                    SO sad that such skills are dying out with such craftsmen.

                                    With the increasing rarity, it no wonder that examples are becoming astronomically expensive.

                                    Howard

                                    #418693
                                    old mart
                                    Participant
                                      @oldmart

                                      Gary, the bottom three pictures are signed, you missed one.

                                      #418701
                                      bricky
                                      Participant
                                        @bricky

                                        They are used for turning arbors and pivots for watch and clock making,I have some in the same wooden tube and use them occasionaly when turning thin items.

                                        Frank

                                        #418708
                                        Michael Gilligan
                                        Participant
                                          @michaelgilligan61133
                                          Posted by bricky on 13/07/2019 19:17:07:

                                          They are used for turning arbors and pivots for watch and clock making,I have some in the same wooden tube and use them occasionaly when turning thin items.

                                          Frank

                                          .

                                          I am happy to be wrong, and learn something new, Frank … but :

                                          I have never seen curved gravers being used in an horologist's lathe.

                                          MichaelG.

                                          #418730
                                          andrew lyner
                                          Participant
                                            @andrewlyner71257

                                            Both suggestions seem possible but.

                                            They look a bit slim as graving tools and the ones I have seen (and used / played with) were quite a bit shorter with a bend right at the end to angle the cut near parallel to the work. The long curve also fits with the idea of producing a cutting force almost parallel with the work face, It is a very scary business. I couldn't stand the tension; I'm clearly not of the right stuff.

                                            I have seen YouTube videos of turning clock arbors and it involved a technique more like wood turning; Hand held with a rest. Those tools could possibly be used for that too.

                                            #418731
                                            Nigel Graham 2
                                            Participant
                                              @nigelgraham2

                                              I think engraving and polishing must be the oldest metal-finishing trades.

                                              Having seen decorative metalwork as early as Bronze-Age in Dorchester Museum, I woinder if they used metal tools or flint gravers?

                                              A couple of years or so ago the Dorset Echo published a photo of the back of a bronze mirror, decorated with dozens of overlapping scallop-shell patterns. Accepting a newspaper's normal photograph definition is not as fine as a standard photographic print, looking at the image of the mirror closely you could see the tiny irregularities in the spacing and curves of the shell ribs you'd expect from hand work with what to us would be crude tools – but none had slipped over the borders.

                                              If anything those tiny imperfections stress this was the patient hand work of an unknown craftsman or woman millennia ago, working with this up-to-date material with so many practical and aesthetic possibilities.

                                              I don't know where it is now, but the mirror's structure is a very elegant circular reflector on a handle composed as I recall, of a row of three toroids.

                                              It's interesting and rather awe-inspiring to see that the decorative work of many otherwise functional items made now, still often uses motifs developed hundreds or even thousands of years ago, as the second of Gary Wooding's photographs show by all that Celtic knot-work.

                                              #418733
                                              Michael Gilligan
                                              Participant
                                                @michaelgilligan61133
                                                Posted by andrew lyner on 13/07/2019 23:13:16:

                                                They look a bit slim as graving tools and the ones I have seen (and used / played with) were quite a bit shorter with a bend right at the end to angle the cut near parallel to the work. …

                                                .

                                                That's why I posted this link, Andrew:

                                                **LINK**

                                                Image located via Wikipedia

                                                MichaelG.

                                                #418785
                                                JohnF
                                                Participant
                                                  @johnf59703

                                                  Howard hand engraving is far from a dying art, it is alive and well look at this link for Cesare Giovanelli's school in Italy **LINK** note entrance where the flags are — it is in the shape of graver point. Giovanelli is a very interesting person – worth a read, also a very unassuming man.

                                                  There are lots of engravers working in the UK as well particularly in the gun trade as well as jewellery etc, incredibly skilful people !

                                                  John

                                                  #418915
                                                  Robin Graham
                                                  Participant
                                                    @robingraham42208

                                                    Thanks for replies.

                                                    AdrianR – no hole in the end of the case for the shanks, it's just a rather nicely turned tube.

                                                    Consensus is that they are hand engraving tools. I had a scratch at them with my hardness testing files, probably not that accurate but somewhere between 60 and 65 HRC at the business ends, 40-45 at the tangs, so presumably made with some care. I'll make mushroom handles and have a play.

                                                    Wow^(Aleph_null) on the gun decorations – amazing, thanks for posting those pics Gary.

                                                    Robin.

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