Soba Vice Problem

This topic has 60 replies, 25 voices, and was last updated 13 August 2014 at 20:56 by Vic.

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24 July 2014 at 20:16 #158650
David Cambridge
Participant
@davidcambridge45658
Good Evening All

After following advice from an earlier thread I decided to by a Soba 3inch vice. I’ve taken the swivel base away and tried to align and clamp it with my milling table using the two holes to the left and right of the vice. Try as I might I’ve not succeeded and this seems to be because the line defined by the centre of the two mounting holes (green) is out of alignment with the vice clamp (red) and it's far enough out to not be enough play in the table t-slots.

My question is am I just doing it wrong, or has the vice been made out of alignment ?

Thanks

David
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24 July 2014 at 20:16 #7247
David Cambridge
Participant
@davidcambridge45658
Soba Vice Problem
24 July 2014 at 20:28 #158652
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Probably does not matter where the holes are when its on its swivel base so maybe not much comeback.

What size bolts hold it to the swivel base, what size fixings are you using and what size are the holes?

J
24 July 2014 at 20:33 #158657
Tony Pratt 1
Participant
@tonypratt1
Hi David,

You are right from what I can see, send it back to your supplier as not fit for purpose. As I have said before "how difficult is it to get things right?"

There is total comeback on this, ask for a refund!

Tony
24 July 2014 at 21:05 #158664
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
David,

Welcome to the world of that much-abused word "Precision"

Strictly speaking, Precision is about repeatability, rather than accuracy [but I won't labour that any further; it's been done-to-death in other threads].

Assuming that this mis-alignment is the only defect; I would be inclined to just re-bore the existing holes with their centres correctly aligned [and, if necessary, sleeve them back to the right size]. … Do it with the vice clamped upside-down onto the table, and aligned by means of a parrallel clamped in the jaws.

If it's wrong in other respects, the do as Tony suggests.

MichaelG.
24 July 2014 at 21:27 #158666
David Cambridge
Participant
@davidcambridge45658
Thanks Chaps

I think if I was more experienced re-drilling the holes would be the correct answer. But, as all this is entirely new to me I’m reluctant to make my first project adjusting a tool that I’ve just paid a big chunk of money for so it will be a phone call to the supplier tomorrow. It’s all very frustrating though as this weekend I was looking forward to trying my first cut into aluminium and now I will have to wait – oh well.

(I was using the same bolts that mount the vice to the swivel table, and they are the same size as the rest of the bolts in the clamp kit I bought and about 1mm smaller than the diameter of the holes).

David
24 July 2014 at 21:41 #158667
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by David Cambridge on 24/07/2014 21:27:57:

But, as all this is entirely new to me I’m reluctant to make my first project adjusting a tool that I’ve just paid a big chunk of money for so it will be a phone call to the supplier tomorrow.

.

Right answer, David

I hope it goes well for you … Do pease keep us informed.

MichaelG.
24 July 2014 at 21:46 #158668
Emgee
Participant
@emgee
Hi David

If you do as Michael suggests while it is upside down and set parallel to the X axis you can mill a shallow groove for fitting a tenon into that will align the vice jaws with the X axis. The tenon of course is a sliding fit in the table Tee slot so will save setting time for almost all work. (If you have a universal mill the above will not be true unless the table is checked for truth. ie: not set at an angle)

Rgds, Emgee
24 July 2014 at 23:00 #158676
Marcus Bowman
Participant
@marcusbowman28936
What is also useful is to make one hole a good fit for a bolt with a short unthreaded portion under the head (a "fitted" bolt). Elongate the other hole in a north-south direction (i.e. elongate towards the front of the mill or drill bed and towards the back. The fitted bolt makes it easy to swivel the vice a little, and the elongated hole ensures you can bring the jaws parallel to the direction of travel of the mill table.

A better way is to make a vice plate (see MEW 206, page 18; MEW 207 pages 16 to 19; and MEW 208 pages 18 to 20 – and note that the plate can easily be made by non-cnc methods). It won't matter whether your vice holes are aligned or not. Simply set up the plate with a reference edge across the table, set the vice on the plate and clock it true, then mark the positions you need for the vice bolts.

Marcus
24 July 2014 at 23:10 #158678
Robbo
Participant
@robbo
Wouldn't the answer to any complaint merely be that this is sold as a swivel vice, and can be aligned by using the swivel facility. If you choose to use it without the swivel base then its up to you to sort it out.

Having said that, any good engineer would align the fixing holes with the vice jaws at the design stage.

If you want to use it as it is before doing any of the above mentioned, then a couple of clamps on the table should hold it OK, or use one bolt hole for it to swivel around for alignment and a clamp on the other side.

Phil

Edited By Robbo on 24/07/2014 23:13:04
24 July 2014 at 23:16 #158679
jason udall
Participant
@jasonudall57142
Err..you say the vice is supplied with a swivel base….
If mounted on that base and set to 90 or 0…degrees…do the mounting holes “line up” with your machine axis…just a thought….since it is supplied assembled it may not “work” disassembled…for example these holes may not be at say 90 270 but for perfectly good reasons be at 80 and 260……
25 July 2014 at 07:33 #158686
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Robbo and Jason's comments are the same as mine, you have already effectively moddified the vice by not using it with the base so maybe no comeback and I suspect any replacement may be the same.

One other opption is to make a custom pair of mounting studs, just turn the thread away on the area that passes through the hole so you still have a bit on the end to fit teh tee nut and some on the other for the hex nut. The smaller section will allow a bit more movement of the base around the stud.

J
25 July 2014 at 09:10 #158691
Bazyle
Participant
@bazyle
Just use smaller bolts with washers until you feel confident to file the original to give extra clearance. These holes are just for mounting so never meant to be in any way precision or accurate.
25 July 2014 at 09:20 #158693
Martin Kyte
Participant
@martinkyte99762
Or if you don't want to use smaller bolts you could just turn a neck on the existing fixings where they go through the vice.

Martin
25 July 2014 at 12:41 #158706
MM57
Participant
@mm57
#1 on **LINK** perhaps

(well it is Friday )
25 July 2014 at 16:23 #158716
Ketan Swali
Participant
@ketanswali79440
Posted by Martin Millener on 25/07/2014 12:41:25:

#1 on **LINK** perhaps

(well it is Friday )

Now that is perfect. Just what I was looking for
25 July 2014 at 18:22 #158722
Tony Pratt 1
Participant
@tonypratt1
Posted by jason udall on 24/07/2014 23:16:16:
Err..you say the vice is supplied with a swivel base….
If mounted on that base and set to 90 or 0…degrees…do the mounting holes "line up" with your machine axis…just a thought….since it is supplied assembled it may not "work" disassembled…for example these holes may not be at say 90 270 but for perfectly good reasons be at 80 and 260……

What perfectly good reason can you conjure up to explain obvious bad workmanship? i would say the holes are off by perhaps 2 or 3 degrees not 10 degrees. Just far enough out to prevent using the vice body on it's own, something I always do with my swivel base vice but then again it's a made in England Abwood variety.

Tony
25 July 2014 at 20:01 #158730
jason udall
Participant
@jasonudall57142
Tony.
1 “just a thought”
2 2-3 degrees not 10…not my place to explain / justify what might be design decisions ( don’t personally believe it myself either ) But it might explain . .
If assembled with its base and all is aligned right with the (it does have a scale?) Index at zero and the holes line up…then unless a design feature , that base must be machined with that vice…

As to abwood
..great vice..have a 8″ onthe mill and a 4″ on the end of my bench..
But what does that mean?
25 July 2014 at 20:42 #158738
John Stevenson 1
Participant
@johnstevenson1
Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 25/07/2014 18:22:43:

Posted by jason udall on 24/07/2014 23:16:16:
Err..you say the vice is supplied with a swivel base….
If mounted on that base and set to 90 or 0…degrees…do the mounting holes "line up" with your machine axis…just a thought….since it is supplied assembled it may not "work" disassembled…for example these holes may not be at say 90 270 but for perfectly good reasons be at 80 and 260……

What perfectly good reason can you conjure up to explain obvious bad workmanship? i would say the holes are off by perhaps 2 or 3 degrees not 10 degrees. Just far enough out to prevent using the vice body on it's own, something I always do with my swivel base vice but then again it's a made in England Abwood variety.

Tony

Yes but if Abwood made it today it would be unaffordable unlike the £9.89 Soba one.

Either use a size down bolts or file one hole a bit – not really rocket science is it.

Do not mix up "Fit for purpose" with "Fit for purse"
25 July 2014 at 20:53 #158741
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by John Stevenson on 25/07/2014 20:42:18:

Yes but if Abwood made it today it would be unaffordable unlike the £9.89 Soba one.

.

John,

Is £9.89 the Trade Price ?

MichaelG.
26 July 2014 at 03:06 #158760
Chris Trice
Participant
@christrice43267
You generally get what you pay for.
26 July 2014 at 07:10 #158764
Danny M2Z
Participant
@dannym2z
G'day.

You could always bid on this one **LINK** that was brought to my attention on another of my favourite sites.

Regards * Danny M *
26 July 2014 at 08:46 #158769
Marcus Bowman
Participant
@marcusbowman28936
Yes; Chris is right:

You generally get what you pay for.

and that's especially true with tools. The same has happened with tools as with many other consumer products; the price has determined the quality. The more low cost tools we buy, the less top quality tools are available to buy, so we've pretty much shot ourselves in both feet by pursuing low cost at any price(!)

There is an awful lot of stuff out there that looks nice (and cheap) but is made of cheese and badly put together. Ultimately, we pay for the tools in the time and effort we have to expend in making a silk purse out of a sow's ear. That's difficult for someone starting out with a workshop, because it often takes expertise to be able to end up with something that works, is accurate, and does the job it would have done in the first place if we had paid top dollar.

For some folk, trading time for a saving in money is fine; but for others it's not such a good deal. It depends on what you want to spend your time doing, of course.

Marcus
26 July 2014 at 09:13 #158774
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by Marcus Bowman on 26/07/2014 08:46:32:

Yes; Chris is right:

You generally get what you pay for.

.

To put this in context; it is worth looking back at David's second post.

In his estimation, he paid "a big chunk" for what he reasonably assumed to be a good product.

This is why I questioned John's pricing … If the U.K. retailers really do make that sort of mark-up, then it would explain a lot.

MichaelG.
26 July 2014 at 09:48 #158781
Ketan Swali
Participant
@ketanswali79440
Posted by Michael Gilligan on 26/07/2014 09:13:13:

This is why I questioned John's pricing … If the U.K. retailers really do make that sort of mark-up, then it would explain a lot.

MichaelG.

I think JS is using the price figuratively….

Speaking as a U.K. importer/retailer, I can assure you that costs for such vice are far more higher than the price mentioned by John.

I do not know what the cost for SOBA vice would be, as I do not import Indian origin vices…yet.

Having said this, I am aware that competition within manufacturers in India for this range of vice and their respective importers here, is very high.

So, I would be surprised if the the importers/U.K. retailers really make high profits on this product. Please also remember to add carriage and VAT before you compare prices with suppliers in the U.S.of A….where prices stated do not include any taxes…

Ketan at ARC.
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